"That's a noble version he is describing. He is not talking about Illinois when he does that," said Stewart, who acknowledges Obama was "a cut above" most state legislators and reliably supported ethics legislation.
I'm a little skeptical about this line of inquiry. Yes, Chicago politics is fascinating and has a reputation for being rough &tumble. Would love to learn more about it (Midwestern roots, but transplanted to California at young age).
I guess my general principle on the campaign season still holds:
Any discussion on something OTHER than the merits or demerits of a particular extant issue affecting the general population is a distraction.
So, Yes, NAFTA criticism and praise is totally fair game -- but the Rezko stuff, I gotta say, doesn't hold much interest for me.
Man, Aziz, talk about pulling the out-of-context quote!
Still, unless there's a lot more direct involvement on Senator Obama's part yet to be revealed, I honestly don't expect this to be a big issue. Right now, it's at the same level as the left's ridiculous Cheney-Bush-Halliburton fixation, which the public has successfully ignored. Guilt by association may be good for riling up those who already oppose a candidate, but it doesn't seem to persuade those who are neutral or supportive. I think the people are smarter than the political operatives give them credit for.
how it is out of context? in fact teh entire article just says, Chicago politics is a cesspool, Obama rails against corruption, Obama hasnt specifically condemned Illinois Democrats enough, and btw Obama's a cut above and supports ethics legislation consistently.
I'm not seeing anything here that says Obama is a "product" of the cesspool.
4. and btw Obama's a cut above and supports ethics legislation consistently.
So you chose the least of the four pillars of the article, and made that your argument. I could have made a pretty damning argument by selectively quoting some of the other points.
I don't think the comment's irrelevant, but it's the "yes, but" of the article.
a well-spoken gentleman indeed. But there's not a logical causal argument here about Obama, its about Chicago politics. The Obama clause is not a "yes but". It's a "in contrast".
The point of the article is chicago politics, and obama's condemnation of dirty politics, and the intersection of these things. But nowhere is there any argument regarding Obama being a product of those politics (implying he is dirty as the system). Instead oif anything the raticle paints a grim picture of chicago politics and then gets a admission from the fiercest critic that Obama isnt of that mold!
To be perfectly clear - the cesspooling of a city or region begins when only one party has control of the political power for years. If there is no effective challenge, corruption happens.
This isn't rocket science - power without balance results in corruption. Detroit, Chicago, the former Soviet Union. History is my cite.
And you don't need absolute power - all you need is enough power to make sure you, your wife, your mistress, your brother in law, your hangers-on, can live high and well. Just enough power that no one is going to look too hard at you, and the employment decisions of departments, agenicies, and associated contractors.
As an ex-Louisiana citizen, I have to say that in Louisiana at least we always had Arkansas we could point to as the one state that was more corrupt, and Mississippi as the one state with the lower average IQ.
Mississippi has topped Louisiana in the IQ department lately, but I think Arkansas still has the title for "most corrupt" state.
3.1.2008 9:47pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
I guess my general principle on the campaign season still holds:
Any discussion on something OTHER than the merits or demerits of a particular extant issue affecting the general population is a distraction.
So, Yes, NAFTA criticism and praise is totally fair game -- but the Rezko stuff, I gotta say, doesn't hold much interest for me.
HankB
Still, unless there's a lot more direct involvement on Senator Obama's part yet to be revealed, I honestly don't expect this to be a big issue. Right now, it's at the same level as the left's ridiculous Cheney-Bush-Halliburton fixation, which the public has successfully ignored. Guilt by association may be good for riling up those who already oppose a candidate, but it doesn't seem to persuade those who are neutral or supportive. I think the people are smarter than the political operatives give them credit for.
I'm not seeing anything here that says Obama is a "product" of the cesspool.
I'll let this guy answer you (outlining added)...
So you chose the least of the four pillars of the article, and made that your argument. I could have made a pretty damning argument by selectively quoting some of the other points.
I don't think the comment's irrelevant, but it's the "yes, but" of the article.
The point of the article is chicago politics, and obama's condemnation of dirty politics, and the intersection of these things. But nowhere is there any argument regarding Obama being a product of those politics (implying he is dirty as the system). Instead oif anything the raticle paints a grim picture of chicago politics and then gets a admission from the fiercest critic that Obama isnt of that mold!
This isn't rocket science - power without balance results in corruption. Detroit, Chicago, the former Soviet Union. History is my cite.
As an ex-Louisiana citizen, I have to say that in Louisiana at least we always had Arkansas we could point to as the one state that was more corrupt, and Mississippi as the one state with the lower average IQ.
Mississippi has topped Louisiana in the IQ department lately, but I think Arkansas still has the title for "most corrupt" state.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.