I certainly hope we're not on the cusp of something like the Dalton solar minimum. The situation could become desparately bad for places like China with large populations, relatively inefficient agriculture, and levels of sunlight already reduced by pollution sufficiently to affect growing seasons.
Fortunately, even if there is catastrophic Maunder-level agricultural damage we are far more productive these days and we've been growing excess corn for ethanol.
When I see data that does that, I say to myself, "Self, that there data done been diddled."
Well, global temperature records based on surface measurements consist entirely of diddling anyway. But they're always diddled to go up. This data done been diddled to go down.
Could it be that, now that people like Steve McIntyre (who already has the "Hockey Stick" stuffed and mounted on his wall) are looking at the surface measurements, maybe the surface measurement people are cleaning up their act? And that removing the more blatant up-diddling looks just like down-diddling?
Bob, my response is your theory doesn't seem consistent with the anecdotal information like the massive sea ice rebound and all the weird places it's been snowing this year.
Well, global temperature records based on surface measurements consist entirely of diddling anyway. But they're always diddled to go up. This data done been diddled to go down.
Probably. Very few of the GISS stations are properly located and/or mounted. Some even above or near large air conditioning units.
The satellite data which I would be more inclined to believe dropped also, but by nearly as large a margin. If memory serves it was a little more than half that, or about .4ish.
Fortunately, even if there is catastrophic Maunder-level agricultural damage we are far more productive these days and we've been growing excess corn for ethanol.
The operative word in that sentence is “we”. In China “we” doesn't include the common people and the consequences of dramatic reduction in agricultural production there will depend entirely on whether the ruling oligarchy decides that importing food produces more domestic harmony than just letting the people starve.
From what I've seen, the market price of corn has increased by about 80% in the last couple years. IIRC, wheat is up about 50%.
Yes, but this is actually good news. When prices of farm products go up, farmers grow more of them. Ag output should increase vastly over the next 10-20 years, especially if go flexfuel as Zubrin has been advocating.
The operative word in that sentence is “we”. In China “we” doesn't include the common people
Actually ag production efficiency is growing about 2% per year globally.
the ruling oligarchy decides that importing food produces more domestic harmony than just letting the people starve.
Mass starvation is very unlikely. This is not the China of 40 years ago.
Not at all. 40 years ago the concepts of private property and individual rights were on the wane in Zhōngguó. Today they wax furiously.
2.20.2008 2:59pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
It's not global warming -- it's massive climate change
So, if it gets really, really hot -- blame man, buy a Prius
And, if it gets really, really cold -- blame man, buy a Prius.
Doncha see?:)
HankB
Well, global temperature records based on surface measurements consist entirely of diddling anyway. But they're always diddled to go up. This data done been diddled to go down.
Could it be that, now that people like Steve McIntyre (who already has the "Hockey Stick" stuffed and mounted on his wall) are looking at the surface measurements, maybe the surface measurement people are cleaning up their act? And that removing the more blatant up-diddling looks just like down-diddling?
Am I completely off base here?
Probably. Very few of the GISS stations are properly located and/or mounted. Some even above or near large air conditioning units.
The satellite data which I would be more inclined to believe dropped also, but by nearly as large a margin. If memory serves it was a little more than half that, or about .4ish.
Doh!
"but by nearly as large" should be...
"but not by nearly as large"
We could probably play albedo games through a Dalton or Maunder.
Curiously, we've been burning a lot of our food. The good news is that we can stop burning it. The bad news is that global stores are down.
This could go very badly.
From what I've seen, the market price of corn has increased by about 80% in the last couple years. IIRC, wheat is up about 50%.
The operative word in that sentence is “we”. In China “we” doesn't include the common people and the consequences of dramatic reduction in agricultural production there will depend entirely on whether the ruling oligarchy decides that importing food produces more domestic harmony than just letting the people starve.
Yes, but this is actually good news. When prices of farm products go up, farmers grow more of them. Ag output should increase vastly over the next 10-20 years, especially if go flexfuel as Zubrin has been advocating.
The operative word in that sentence is “we”. In China “we” doesn't include the common people
Actually ag production efficiency is growing about 2% per year globally.
the ruling oligarchy decides that importing food produces more domestic harmony than just letting the people starve.
Mass starvation is very unlikely. This is not the China of 40 years ago.
Sure it is, TallDave. It's just the China of 40 years ago (and the China of 140 years ago) exporting a lot.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.