Well said. I never felt any affinity for Hillary Clinton because she is a woman and so am I. I doubt there are many women who get all that excited about a woman as president, because women are presidents of corporations all over the place. Besides, the most influential person in America is a woman and also black. (Oprah.)
I think the big unmentionable is not race or gender but class.
Obama is from a particular social class. I think class is a more powerful predictor of outcomes.
I don't think it's all that interesting. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama don't have too many substantive differences on policies. Consequently, what's being debated are matters of style, approach, identity, and intangibles.
It just so happens to be the case that the Republican candidates do not offer any of the sort of, er, "variety" that allows for the possibility of more than one piece of the American demographic spectrum to even think in terms of racial or gender identification.
I mean, how would it work:
...while males with a full head of gray hair find themselves torn between Mitt Romney and John McCain. "I mean, said Bill Fitzer, as a white male with a full head of gray hair, I just don't know if I should support McCain, with his kind of wimpy gray hair, or Romney with all that great brown hair."
Hmm, that's an interesting way of looking at it. Identity was key in 2004 as well. I've run across many who say they don't know how or why Kerry won the Democratic nomination, but it was always obviously to me: he's a decorated veteran and a decorated veteran can beat Bush (or so the thinking went). Identity trumped all in that case.
On the other hand, Dave, I have to say that I tend to think of evangelicals as more of an identity group than an idea group. I have many friends and relatives in that world, and it's very much a tribalist thing with a lot of them, as religion so often is.
On the other hand, Dave, I have to say that I tend to think of evangelicals as more of an identity group than an idea group.
What differentiates religion from identity is that you can change your religion.
Religion is an idea. Gender and race are generally permanent physical qualities.
There's some truth to Snippet's point, but otoh the lack of diverse race/gender among the candidates doesn't necessarily equate to an inability on their part to pander by demographic. Politics on the left is swirled and roiled by a collection of identity groups: the NAACP, NOW, etc.
It was interesting to see a Latina supporter talk about what "Clinton has done for Hispanics." Can you imagine a Republican standing up and saying "Vote for McCain, because he's done so much for whites?"
Seriously, I am really geting sick of sentences that begin with:
"As a (anything but straight white male)..."
As a colorless person, I am starting to give up hope for the whole "colorblind society" thing, and I sometimes feel like a sucker for having bought into it this long.
I agree with Snippet. I feel like the media looks down on Americans for a level of racism that they project onto the public (the ignorant, unwashed masses!) and in the same breath they perpetuate racial stereotypes and make general statements about entire ethnicities, races, and genders, as if they are all of one mind. Why does every black man have to stand for EVERY black man? Why does every woman have to stand for EVERY woman? Why can't they stand on their own, as individuals, without being asked how their actions reflect on their gender/race? Yes, it's important to have a dialog about race in this country, but there's a right way and a wrong way.
2.18.2008 2:36pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
That's kinda funny you should put it that way Dave, because so far this election cycle my questions have been "when, and why?"
I think the big unmentionable is not race or gender but class.
Obama is from a particular social class. I think class is a more powerful predictor of outcomes.
I mean, how would it work:
...while males with a full head of gray hair find themselves torn between Mitt Romney and John McCain. "I mean, said Bill Fitzer, as a white male with a full head of gray hair, I just don't know if I should support McCain, with his kind of wimpy gray hair, or Romney with all that great brown hair."
Yes, that was the point. The Democrat race has largely been one of identity, not policy.
On the other hand, Dave, I have to say that I tend to think of evangelicals as more of an identity group than an idea group. I have many friends and relatives in that world, and it's very much a tribalist thing with a lot of them, as religion so often is.
What differentiates religion from identity is that you can change your religion.
Religion is an idea. Gender and race are generally permanent physical qualities.
There's some truth to Snippet's point, but otoh the lack of diverse race/gender among the candidates doesn't necessarily equate to an inability on their part to pander by demographic. Politics on the left is swirled and roiled by a collection of identity groups: the NAACP, NOW, etc.
It was interesting to see a Latina supporter talk about what "Clinton has done for Hispanics." Can you imagine a Republican standing up and saying "Vote for McCain, because he's done so much for whites?"
"As a (anything but straight white male)..."
As a colorless person, I am starting to give up hope for the whole "colorblind society" thing, and I sometimes feel like a sucker for having bought into it this long.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.