Trudy, can you document your claim that domestic violence programs are run by hardline "men are pigs, women are idiots" feminists? As opposed to a completely rational person who would acknowledge that men who beat women are despicable, and that women who stick with men who beat them are foolish? To justify your claim, you need to demonstrate that the people running these programs are irrationally hyperbolic in their beliefs. And how do you distinguish irrational disgust for men who beat women from rational disgust for men who beat women?
So why are you making claims about the group of people who run domestic violence programs?
I agree, there's plenty of hyperbole in the feminist world, and feminism's intrusion into academia has led to some pretty silly results. But let's not dismiss domestic violence programs because there are some nut cases out there. It's a big world.
Chris, the description of the “men are pigs, women are idiots" feminists is not a denial that sometimes men beat women, and that's despicable. Rather, it refers to that type as denying that women beat, murder, and otherwise abuse men, and that's equally despicable. Not only that, but women are abusive at roughly the same rate if not higher.
An alternate complete negation would be "Men are morons, women are abusive". Better yet, "If a man strikes a woman, it's prima facie evidence that she has manipulated and abused him until he is no longer capable of rational judgement".
Here it is without the venom:
The view that “men are pigs, women are idiots" is both misandrist and misogynist. Trudy rejects both sides of it. She has provided ample evidence of both its prevalnce and her rejection in other postings.
As I understand it, you read it as only rejecting the misandry.
In general, you might find the conversation more edifying if you start from the assumption that you're late to the conversation and the front pagers here at DW have thought things through at least a little bit.
I flatly do not agree any man has proprietary right over any human embryo or fetus. It was my wife who gave birth to each of our four children. And if she had decided to abort any of them or any reason, I would have supported her decision irrespective of any other consideration.
Did I bond with all of them? I did just that. I'm glad they came to life as children of Stefi and Arnold Harris.
But it is -- and always has been -- my wife whom I value above all other persons and all other considerations. And yes, I would put her interests ahead of the children. They all know this, and respect us the more for that.
Having said that, I still wonder why it is that so many domestic violence programs sponsored by Catholic community services are run by hardline, “men are pigs, women are idiots” feminists.
I think the answer, is that, the therapy people are usually women in undergraduate programs. In order to become a therapist one of the requirements is that one must accumulate something like 5 thousand hours (talking mostly to teenagers and or abuse victims). If one survives, one can get a PhD or something.
So guess which sex talks the most hours to most undergrad psychology majors of which sex ?
Next.
Let's see,
Arnold had four children, his wife said they're mine, and Arnold said, Okay.
In the meantime, since Roe vs Wade, there have been some 40 million abortions, about which we are told that Trudy has no opinions.
We had four children. I'm fairly certain they all are mine as well as Stefi's.
And if not, I wouldn't truly give much of a damn. I bonded with them as much as Stefi did. Or at least I hope I did; because I'm still partially paying for the upkeep of two of them.
In any case, some of them at least act like I do, which is snotty, and knowing the answers before the questions are even asked.
One of them is blond, like my wife; the other three dark haired. Three are comparatively tall; one comparatively short.
Two of them had the good sense to get into professional computer animation design, in a age when all the idiots of the world gave up on television and started in on trying to destroy all the aliens on the planet Mongo. (And paying game companies for the privilege if doing all that with good software.) A third hopes to become an MD, the fourth a combination nurse, EMS technician and on-call fire fighter.
But I don't bond emotionally or any other way with globs of protoplasma or whatever it is that turns into an embryo in a pregnant woman. That to me, and my wife, is something that awaits a live birth.
Do I love all of them? You bet. Would I have banged on the walls at the thought of Stefi aborting any of them before birth? No way. She's the mother, and I would have backed her call.
Arnold, you offer only your personal experience. Other people are emotionally different from you. Some bond early, others not at all. Just because something works for you is not evidence that it works for everyone all the time.
12.2.2007 4:38pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
Find irrational hyperbole here
I agree, there's plenty of hyperbole in the feminist world, and feminism's intrusion into academia has led to some pretty silly results. But let's not dismiss domestic violence programs because there are some nut cases out there. It's a big world.
An alternate complete negation would be "Men are morons, women are abusive". Better yet, "If a man strikes a woman, it's prima facie evidence that she has manipulated and abused him until he is no longer capable of rational judgement".
The view that “men are pigs, women are idiots" is both misandrist and misogynist. Trudy rejects both sides of it. She has provided ample evidence of both its prevalnce and her rejection in other postings.
As I understand it, you read it as only rejecting the misandry.
In general, you might find the conversation more edifying if you start from the assumption that you're late to the conversation and the front pagers here at DW have thought things through at least a little bit.
Did I bond with all of them? I did just that. I'm glad they came to life as children of Stefi and Arnold Harris.
But it is -- and always has been -- my wife whom I value above all other persons and all other considerations. And yes, I would put her interests ahead of the children. They all know this, and respect us the more for that.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
To some, failure to procreate represents a failure as a biological unit.
I think the answer, is that, the therapy people are usually women in undergraduate programs. In order to become a therapist one of the requirements is that one must accumulate something like 5 thousand hours (talking mostly to teenagers and or abuse victims). If one survives, one can get a PhD or something.
So guess which sex talks the most hours to most undergrad psychology majors of which sex ?
Next.
Let's see,
Arnold had four children, his wife said they're mine, and Arnold said, Okay.
In the meantime, since Roe vs Wade, there have been some 40 million abortions, about which we are told that Trudy has no opinions.
There seems to be some dis-connects there.
We had four children. I'm fairly certain they all are mine as well as Stefi's.
And if not, I wouldn't truly give much of a damn. I bonded with them as much as Stefi did. Or at least I hope I did; because I'm still partially paying for the upkeep of two of them.
In any case, some of them at least act like I do, which is snotty, and knowing the answers before the questions are even asked.
One of them is blond, like my wife; the other three dark haired. Three are comparatively tall; one comparatively short.
Two of them had the good sense to get into professional computer animation design, in a age when all the idiots of the world gave up on television and started in on trying to destroy all the aliens on the planet Mongo. (And paying game companies for the privilege if doing all that with good software.) A third hopes to become an MD, the fourth a combination nurse, EMS technician and on-call fire fighter.
But I don't bond emotionally or any other way with globs of protoplasma or whatever it is that turns into an embryo in a pregnant woman. That to me, and my wife, is something that awaits a live birth.
Do I love all of them? You bet. Would I have banged on the walls at the thought of Stefi aborting any of them before birth? No way. She's the mother, and I would have backed her call.
Wanna argue more about any of this?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.