Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Hoisting Yourself With Your Own Petard

Bret Stephens does something amazing: shoots his own argument down without even realizing it.

In the article, he says that the Columbia University of the 1930s, prior to World War II, would certainly never have allowed a madman like Adolph Hitler to come and give a speech and be grilled by faculty and students.... but then acknowledges, twice, that Columbia did in fact do exactly that with Hitler's frickin' ambassador, who prattled a bunch of nonsense about his country's peaceful intentions.

What, pray tell, is the difference? Especially, as has already been established (see "How to Treat A Bad Man" below) Ahmadinejad is not his country's dictator, is in fact a figurehead representing a dictator in much the same fashion that one of Hitler's ambassadors would be? Once again, the "President" of Iran holds no military power of substance and only limited political power; the man known as the Supreme Leader of Iran holds all the important power, including all military, security, and media control. If Iran were ever to, say, throw a nuclear bomb at Israel, it would be Ali Khamenei giving that order, not the pathetic Ahmadinejad.

Indeed, there's something ironic here, since "Fuhrer" is German for "leader." So it would be perfectly reasonable to translate "Supreme Leader" as "Supreme Fuhrer" or whatever German for "supreme" would be (Uber Fuhrer, perhaps?).

So, Ahmadinejad is not a dictator--someone else already has that job. He isn't the one setting Iran's military policies--that's the Fuhrer'sSupreme Leader's doing. So what is the difference between hosting Adolph Hitler's representative, and hosting Ali Khamenei's puppet-president? None that I can see.

Mr. Stephens can't have it both ways. Either Columbia was wrong in the 1930s, or they were right this week.

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. Hoisting Yourself With Your Own Petard
  2. How To Treat A Bad Man
  3. Columbia falls short
  4. Columbia Justifies Itself
Posted by Dean | Permalink | Technorati Trackbacks
Kristian H. (mail) (www):

Once again, the "President" of Iraq

Err, Iran?
9.26.2007 1:29pm
Thief (mail) (www):
I don't think it rebuts Stephens' point (which was a quite good essay). I think it makes Columbia look even more foolish, and even more of a dupe for repressive governments.

Despite what the intellectual classes of every age and ideology have believed, some men and regimes simply will not be reasoned with. Why invite them to your country to talk to you if this is the case? Best case, nobody gains. Worst case, you confuse yourself.

I have to give Bollinger some respect for calling out Ahmadinejad. But it would have been better to just flat turn him down. Same with Hitler's lapdog in the 30's.
9.26.2007 1:35pm
Kevin D (mail) (www):
If the people at Columbia didn't believe Ahmadinejad was responsible for the atrocities commonly attributed to him why would they even bother to invite him?

Whether Ahmadinejad is actually responsible or simply a puppet is irrelevant. The people at Columbia clearly believe he's responsible and as such are to be themselves condemned for giving him a platform to speak in the U.S.

I also believe the comparison with Hans Luther and Adolf Hitler is inappropriate. The Hitler we know today, the villian, wasn't known to be as such come 1933. Need you be reminded that Time Magazine named him "Man of the Year" in 1938 for turning Germany, an economic black hole, around?

So, I think Dean is wrong for giving Columbia a pass when it comes to Ahmadinejad because Columbia certianly viewed him a villian and I think Bret Stephens is wrong because the world didn't know of the Hitler of World War 2 in 1933.
9.26.2007 1:47pm
Dave Justus (mail) (www):
Germany in 1933 was not considered a threat by most Americans. By 1937, things had started to chang (and that particular ambassador, who was not a Nazi, retired.) It is also worth noting that in 1933, Hitler was not the Furher, that didn't happen until 1934.

Bret Stephens is of course claiming that Iran is like Germany in 1939 (not 1933) which was the year that John Coatsworth was talking about. Now, Stephens may be wrong in this analogy, but you do not address that.

In any event, saying that Hans Luthor is like Ahmadinejad is probably a slur to the former.
9.26.2007 1:47pm
DanielH:
There are other reasons why the comparison is poor, but on economic reasons alone the suggested equivalence of today's Iran (with its economy in the dumps) and Germany in 1939 (with its economy booming) falters.
9.26.2007 1:58pm
Ronald Coleman (mail) (www):
Dave, so what? Mein Kampf had long been in print. Hitler's place outside the specturm of civilization was not in question.
9.26.2007 2:21pm
Kevin D (mail) (www):
Ron,

Wasn't it? It's first edition, published in 1925, only saw 500 copies printed - and that was in German. It wasn't published in English until October 1933 in the U.K. It wasn't published in the U.S. until 1934

So, it's very, very likely no one in America knew much, if anything, about the book when Hans Luther visited in 1933.
9.26.2007 2:37pm
Mark @ Urthshu (mail) (www):

Hitler's place outside the specturm of civilization was not in question.
Ron, bubbe, Fascism in those days wasn't exactly outside of the pale. I might go so far as to say that, in Europe, it was only a matter of degree for all of them. The only thing preventing me from asserting that blankly is the popularity of Red Fascism on the Continent, though thats meager comfort.
9.26.2007 4:51pm
Bryan Costin (mail) (www):
Even without the benefit of hindsight, information flowed very slowly in the 30's. Columbia doesn't have that same excuse today.

If I'm not mistaken, the first English language editions of Mein Kampf were also heavily edited. A full translation wasn't available in the States until the late 30's, just in time for the war. (There was a famous copyright dispute over the translation rights.)

And it wasn't until even later that people accepted that Hitler was crazy enough to really mean all that stuff he wrote. Some people still don't acknowledge it, including Ahmadinejad and his masters.
9.27.2007 1:03pm
Mike (mail):
The elites have always liked having Tea with Hitler.
9.27.2007 1:52pm
Account:
Password:
Remember info?
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.

Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.

Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.