After moving to Arizona and living here for 20 years, I've found that what we think of as "the Wild West" was considerably tamer than we have been led to believe. The mythology was mostly the work of backEast writers who'd never been here.
Then add some Hollywood glitz, and well...
But I've been places like the OK Corral and Whiskey Row in Prescott, and everything is always so much smaller than expected! ;>)
I think it's worthwhile considering the literary antecedents of the pirate mythology as well as the cinematic. Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island probably did more to promote the romance of piracy than anything else.
That's generally taken out of context and treated superficially. Stevenson deliberately made Long John Silver attractive and Captain Smollett bland. It's consistent with a theme he returned to throughout his works i.e. that evil may be more attractive than good, more clearly epitomized in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (Hyde is a moral monster, not a physical one) and The Master of Ballantrae (the evil brother is in many ways more appealing than the good one).
Stevenson's work was followed by that of “Rafael Sabatini” on whose pulp fiction historical romances a number of Errol Flynn's movies were based.
This stuff persists to this day. There's a sub-genre of romance fiction, for example, known in the trade as “Rape me, pirates”.
All that is true, but while pirates were nasty folk it is also worth remembering that they lived in a nasty world. The rich plunder the pirates in the golden age took was a product of the slave trade after all, an activity that was considered both legal and civilized. And the sailors on legitimate ships were treated almost as badly as the victims of the pirates were.
I'm sorry Ron, I disagree. I enjoy Dean's World for the simple reason that rarely will you find Dean injecting political jabs or rhetoric into his posts. Especially when it would take a stretch to get there. It was SO (SO SO SO) refreshing to read a post on mythology without the writer taking a jab at one religion or another. This post was about Pirates (OK Super Heroes and the Wild West too)... not The Kennedy Administration, 9/11, Christianity, or even little green men. Thanks Dean.
My own take is that modern-day terrorism should be viewed and treated much like piracy in the days of yore: pirates and terrorists are the acknowledged and proud enemies of civilization and cutthroats and murderers by definition, people who are at war with civilization by definition, and should be treated accordingly.
Impossible today. President Jefferson and his admirals and captains operated in a time before FISA courts and other modern civil rights structures.
I guess it's a matter of age, but the 1950s-60s-- leading up to the centennial of the American Civil War---certainly produced a mass of mythologic media. TV shows like 'Grey Ghost' to countless histories of the Civil War, many with particular aspects being explored, led to a new mythology and iconography.
You might say the same for the Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone phenomena.
The anniversary of the War of 1812 is quickly approaching. Get your stuff together now and you can ride the wave in five years' time!
Ender, I had a pang of regret, for the reasons you mention, when I made my comment. You may be right.
But I do think that mythology every bit as fanciful as our piratey fun and the Round Table of King Arthur infects our contemporary thinking and even policymaking as well, and that's why I decided to leave it.
People tend to romanticize the past in any case, so if it can be done in such a way as to reinforce basic values it becomes an important part of the foundation of a culture.
Pirates are and were some of the worst elements of the world, but by telling stories of people who do the right thing in the end we reinforce the concept of redemption and doing good for no other reason that it's the right thing to do. Those of us hearing the story have the opportunity to not make the same mistakes that our intrepid anti-hero makes.
When I was younger, John F. Kennedy was a hero of mine. Later, some of his indiscretions became the focus of some of my classes, as if to prove that he was no better than anyone else. It took me years to realize that invalidating that part of the man did not invalidate the good things that he'd done, and so now I choose my heroes for what they've accomplished, and view their mistakes as warnings.
Is that shallow, or is it a way to set goals and ideals?
Actually, thanks to the likes of Tom Brokaw, we've also mythologized the "greatest generation" -- which did great things, indeed, but also raised the rottenest generation.
I've already stated here and elsewhere my theory of placing the 'cowboy' in American mythology as the 'knight-errant' in European mythology. They are the same. The Lone Ranger is Ivanhoe.
For anyone to accuse an American of being a cowboy is like telling an Englishman that he is Richard the Lion-Heart, or a Frenchman that he is Roland.
The reply, which seems to confuse, is "Thanks!"
And the accusation underlines that they really do not understand Americans, no matter how many McDonald's open.
I've already stated here and elsewhere my theory of placing the 'cowboy' in American mythology as the 'knight-errant' in European mythology. They are the same. The Lone Ranger is Ivanhoe.
For anyone to accuse an American of being a cowboy is like telling an Englishman that he is Richard the Lion-Heart, or a Frenchman that he is Roland.
Mike,
Have you read Don Quixote? Now, I like a good medieval romance like Parzival or the Nibelungenlied now and then, but there is an element of the ridiculous in the tales of knights-errant fighting giant knights of which Europeans ever since (at least) the time of Cervantes have been aware. Of course the Victorians, the Pre-Raphaelites, and the Celtic Twilighters all did their best to reverse this "ironic distancing" from European mythology, the damage has been done. I don't think many people who conciously see themselves as cowboys or knights-errant come off as anything less than humorous these days.
What's notable about the Wild West is not that it only lasted 20-30 years, but that it wasn't really wild.
The James gang, the Youngers, and the Daltons are remembered not because they were typical but because they were atypical (and most of them didn't die of old age).
9.21.2007 9:02pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
Then add some Hollywood glitz, and well...
But I've been places like the OK Corral and Whiskey Row in Prescott, and everything is always so much smaller than expected! ;>)
That's generally taken out of context and treated superficially. Stevenson deliberately made Long John Silver attractive and Captain Smollett bland. It's consistent with a theme he returned to throughout his works i.e. that evil may be more attractive than good, more clearly epitomized in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (Hyde is a moral monster, not a physical one) and The Master of Ballantrae (the evil brother is in many ways more appealing than the good one).
Stevenson's work was followed by that of “Rafael Sabatini” on whose pulp fiction historical romances a number of Errol Flynn's movies were based.
This stuff persists to this day. There's a sub-genre of romance fiction, for example, known in the trade as “Rape me, pirates”.
So you didn’t take Dean’s last paragraph as political?
Good for you if you didn’t.
But I expect many folks would feel otherwise.
Impossible today. President Jefferson and his admirals and captains operated in a time before FISA courts and other modern civil rights structures.
You might say the same for the Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone phenomena.
The anniversary of the War of 1812 is quickly approaching. Get your stuff together now and you can ride the wave in five years' time!
But I do think that mythology every bit as fanciful as our piratey fun and the Round Table of King Arthur infects our contemporary thinking and even policymaking as well, and that's why I decided to leave it.
People tend to romanticize the past in any case, so if it can be done in such a way as to reinforce basic values it becomes an important part of the foundation of a culture.
Pirates are and were some of the worst elements of the world, but by telling stories of people who do the right thing in the end we reinforce the concept of redemption and doing good for no other reason that it's the right thing to do. Those of us hearing the story have the opportunity to not make the same mistakes that our intrepid anti-hero makes.
When I was younger, John F. Kennedy was a hero of mine. Later, some of his indiscretions became the focus of some of my classes, as if to prove that he was no better than anyone else. It took me years to realize that invalidating that part of the man did not invalidate the good things that he'd done, and so now I choose my heroes for what they've accomplished, and view their mistakes as warnings.
Is that shallow, or is it a way to set goals and ideals?
Shallow? I'd say noble.
Yours,
Wince
For anyone to accuse an American of being a cowboy is like telling an Englishman that he is Richard the Lion-Heart, or a Frenchman that he is Roland.
The reply, which seems to confuse, is "Thanks!"
And the accusation underlines that they really do not understand Americans, no matter how many McDonald's open.
For the medieval stuff, see Stevenson's The Black Arrow and Conan Doyle's The White Company.
Again with the Wyeth prints; again - Gee, that's neat!
Mike,
Have you read Don Quixote? Now, I like a good medieval romance like Parzival or the Nibelungenlied now and then, but there is an element of the ridiculous in the tales of knights-errant fighting giant knights of which Europeans ever since (at least) the time of Cervantes have been aware. Of course the Victorians, the Pre-Raphaelites, and the Celtic Twilighters all did their best to reverse this "ironic distancing" from European mythology, the damage has been done. I don't think many people who conciously see themselves as cowboys or knights-errant come off as anything less than humorous these days.
The James gang, the Youngers, and the Daltons are remembered not because they were typical but because they were atypical (and most of them didn't die of old age).
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.