Corrections: Edwards claimed that cases of cerebral palsy were caused by obstetricians providing inadequate care during delivery. Also, Edwards is from North Carolina, not Tennessee. (NC is also in a medical liability crunch, too.)
When I saw a picture of Edwards' house yesterday, my jaw dropped, literally. Five people live in a building that looks like it could house 100.
I have nothing whatsoever against people buying whatever size house they want to. I simply don't care. But a man who lives in a house like that cannot and must not ever presume to tell other Americans what kind of car they should be driving.
Most people I know drive pickups or SUVs, and live in small or medium size houses. I can guarantee you that their carbon footprints are a tiny fraction of that of the Edwards family.
I don't think you're right on the charge of hypocrisy against Edwards, Scott. I think that Edwards distinguishes between individual action and group action and believe that group action is the way to accomplish his goals. A federal law to ban SUV's would be a group action. Owning an SUV is an individual action. Believing that a group action should prevent an individual action he has taken isn't hypocrisy. I think it's something worse than hypocrisy.
As to whether Edwards is electable or not I have no idea. I continue to believe that he's the most likely to be elected of the first-tier Democratic candidates—he fits the profile of the presidents we've elected more closely than the others, he's a successful professional advocate, and his favorable/unfavorable ratings are likely to get better rather than worse.
It is interesting to me that the Democratic Party has changed greatly. In the past their slogan was "These guys are holding you down; vote for me and you'll get your share." Now it is "You people have too much; vote for me and I'll take that away from you."
They've gone from standing up for the American common man and woman to blaming the American common man and woman.
the populist message is still the same, it's just there's fewer people on the "have not" side of the aisle.
i liked edwards when he ran in '04, but right now he's behaving like a buffoon. i don't see him doing much in the primaries but that's probably my own bias talking.
I think Hilary is the boring candidate and that will win her the primaries. I think the country is ready for boring.
Dave, you could probably say more or less the same thing about David Duke, couldn't you? Except maybe the last one. Even then, I'm sure he has a bright future in mind if you listen to his plan. I'm just saying that list obviously is not too useful. You could also list these things that he has in common with Wendell Wilkie, for example: Middle-aged, law school graduate, likes golf, great public speaker, wears size 10 loafers.
There are disqualifiers, too, Ron. David Duke isn't in the political mainstream. He also never held statewide office.
BTW the last point is critical. In my lifetime every single presidential election has been won by the (major party) candidate who was able to paint the brightest, most positive picture of America's future.
That, basically, is why I continue to be skeptical of Hillary Clinton's prospects. I don't see her as a great messenger for that message.
Then perhaps, zach, the populist race is done? I mean, if you are a populist running for the Democratic presidential nomination and you go into a union hall and start blaming them for the troubles of the world...
I could not imagine FDR or JFK doing that. I can't imagine any past candidate, Republican or Democrat, doing just that. It simply boggles the mind.
Not fair, Mike. When JFK and FDR were running, unions had a far different political role, and were much more influential in the economy than they are now.
Dave
It's still WAAAAY to early to call either of the races, but I just don't see what would propel Edwards out of the middle of the pack. Iowans love him - but that didn't help my man Dick Gephardt. In fact I would go out on a limb and say that both Iowa and New Hampshire matter less than the large primary groups that follow them.
To put it bluntly, what's his "angle"? What would make my democratic counterpart vote for him over hard-nosed Hillary or the raw JFK-style potential offered by Obama?
clearly the populist race isn't done, because edwards populist message resonated with the union workers he was speaking to. the article mentions he received several standing ovations. but i think at this point, unlike even 20 years ago, catering to labor unions isn't exactly going to get you the votes you need. In the last election Dick Gephardt was the union man and he received a whopping 0 delegates.
Ron: I don't know if JFK was a populist per se (though I think FDR was) and I agree unions have lost political clout. But I still have a hard time seeing either FDR or JFK rolling up to a group of potential supporters and in a public speech start doing a metaphorical finger-wagging. Here are American workers and here is a candidate saying "you guys have it too good; you're going to have to give up this. Now I must ride back to my mansion."
This is serious WTH territory.
zach: I can't recall the populist message ever having a component where the populist attacks the common man or woman. WTH? And exactly who is Edwards catering to when he puts out that message, and who then does he see as being more important?
That is what I mean by populism's race may be over, because while it is still used and appealed to by Democratic candidates, those to whom it is directed are also subject to attacks by those candidates.
If so, in my opinion, there is a new demographic that the candidate is appealing to and it isn't the common man or woman - they are secondary now and will soon will be relegated to an acknowledgment at the beginning of the speech, a nice, "how ya doin'" and then the candidate ignores them for the rest of the speech.
It's still WAAAAY to early to call either of the races, but I just don't see what would propel Edwards out of the middle of the pack.
Agreed. The way I read the tealeaves at this point is that Hillary Clinton is very likely to receive the Democratic nomination. I'm not convinced that she'll be the next president, though. I think that either Obama or Edwards would be stronger in the general than she.
Suing OB-GYN's is kinda sleazy in my book. Birth is dangerous for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with doctors. Also, it creates a huge incentive to press c-sections on pregnant women, since it gives much greater control to the doctor and hospital.
No, Mikeca, that is not the main complaint against Edwards. You can't even have read either Scott's post or mine (which I appended at the bottom) if you seriously think that.
Mikeca
John Edwards was good at what he did - but what he did damaged our society. He made his money by persecuting innocent people, and North Carolina continues to pay the price for his wealth in the form of fewer obstetricians practicing in the state, and those that remain paying higher malpractice premiums. We're not talking increases of 5-10% - we're talking premiums doubling in two years.
Between December 2001 and June 2003, medical malpractice insurance rates for neurosurgeons in North Carolina rose between 25 and 166 percent. That field is not alone; obstetricians, orthopedic surgeons, thoracic surgeons and emergency room physicians also saw dramatic increases, anywhere from 14 to 378 percent. Almost 60 percent of the state’s liability insurance market is controlled by only three companies. Source.
That mansion he sits in - all 23000 square feet of it - was paid for by the suffering of doctors and their families. Yet he has the chutzpah to say he has nothing to apologize for, and asks that those of us in houses 1/10th the size (mine is 1/20th) make sacrifices for the environment.
I try to live my life according to my principles. I'm not always successful, but I do my best. Right Livelihood is a key tenet of Buddhism, and I truly believe that what you do must make the world a better place.
John Edwards's livelihood made the world a worse place. Sure he was good at what he did; I'm sure there are ex-drug dealers who could say the same thing - yet that make what they did right, or the world a better place.
An ex-boss of mine, now a friend, once said "all wealth ends up in the hands of lawyers." Unfortunately I don't think he meant the lawyers around here...
does that mean that the alternative is to never prosecute big tobacco, any medical malpractice, corporate negligence, etc.? is it fred baron's fault that asbestos is dangerous? there has got to be some middleground.
here is a candidate saying "you guys have it too good; you're going to have to give up this. Now I must ride back to my mansion."
Yes. He's like the old pre-20's elite of America, before the Depression made them hide a little and not be so brazen. But what do you want, he's nouveau riche.
in my opinion, there is a new demographic that the candidate is appealing to and it isn't the common man or woman
The new one is the 'decision [or opinion] makers', the cognoscenti vice the Common Man, who showed to the Democrats he could not be trusted with the vote during the last election. Yes, I really do think they're that arrogant.
It's not that EVERY case is frivolous. Of course, many times people are hurt and deserve the big judgments they get.
The problem is when the Plaintiffs' Bar institutionalizes such lawsuits to create a massive wealth-distribution racket.
Asbestos IS dangerous, and many of its makers and users DESERVED to be sued.
I have little sympathy for those guys. But, many of those guys have been bankrupted by the suits already. Now, the defendants are Mom and Pop stores, blender makers, Safeway (some guy worked in the warehouse for 2 weeks 42 years ago.) The litigation has EXPANDED into a multi-headed hydra.
I once defended a case brought by a Salesman for asbestos products, (who sadly died of mesothelioma) whose job it was 50 years ago to sell asbestos products to factories and shipyards -- and then he sued these same factories and shipyards for exposing HIM to the asbestos.
So, you did defended the case, no ? What is the big secret on a matter you brought up about lawyers and John Edwards, life path ?
Meanwhile a short quote from Catch-22:
"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing’. The women had done nothing wrong but were still chased away. When challenged the M.P.s kept saying ‘Catch-22’.
"They don’t have to show us Catch-22," the old woman answered.
Most politicians are Rich Bastards that claim to know what it is like to be poor. Edwards is as fake as they get. Living one life and preaching another. He is the "classic" politician down to the plastic smile.
His Anniversary dinner at Wendy's was quite probably one of the most condescending political stunts in my eyes. This is how he attempts to relate to the common man? The common man goes to Wendy's so he can save to take his wife to "Fancy America" when that time comes. Especially on a 30th anniversary.
This man is so uncommon he makes makes my skin crawl. In short, I don't like him.
I think Hilary is the boring candidate and that will win her the primaries. I think the country is ready for boring.
Heh, if that's the case Al Gore should be a shoe in.
9.2.2007 3:53am
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
I have nothing whatsoever against people buying whatever size house they want to. I simply don't care. But a man who lives in a house like that cannot and must not ever presume to tell other Americans what kind of car they should be driving.
Most people I know drive pickups or SUVs, and live in small or medium size houses. I can guarantee you that their carbon footprints are a tiny fraction of that of the Edwards family.
As to whether Edwards is electable or not I have no idea. I continue to believe that he's the most likely to be elected of the first-tier Democratic candidates—he fits the profile of the presidents we've elected more closely than the others, he's a successful professional advocate, and his favorable/unfavorable ratings are likely to get better rather than worse.
Oof! Thanks for the fact checking. Fixing that now.
Good point. I like that.
What is it about him that makes you think he's electable? Even more than Hillary?
They've gone from standing up for the American common man and woman to blaming the American common man and woman.
the populist message is still the same, it's just there's fewer people on the "have not" side of the aisle.
i liked edwards when he ran in '04, but right now he's behaving like a buffoon. i don't see him doing much in the primaries but that's probably my own bias talking.
I think Hilary is the boring candidate and that will win her the primaries. I think the country is ready for boring.
Southern
male
white
Protestant
populist
looks good on TV
able to paint a bright picture of America's future
Don't confuse this with my being pro-Edwards. I'm not.
BTW the last point is critical. In my lifetime every single presidential election has been won by the (major party) candidate who was able to paint the brightest, most positive picture of America's future.
That, basically, is why I continue to be skeptical of Hillary Clinton's prospects. I don't see her as a great messenger for that message.
I could not imagine FDR or JFK doing that. I can't imagine any past candidate, Republican or Democrat, doing just that. It simply boggles the mind.
Was JFK really a populist?
It's still WAAAAY to early to call either of the races, but I just don't see what would propel Edwards out of the middle of the pack. Iowans love him - but that didn't help my man Dick Gephardt. In fact I would go out on a limb and say that both Iowa and New Hampshire matter less than the large primary groups that follow them.
To put it bluntly, what's his "angle"? What would make my democratic counterpart vote for him over hard-nosed Hillary or the raw JFK-style potential offered by Obama?
clearly the populist race isn't done, because edwards populist message resonated with the union workers he was speaking to. the article mentions he received several standing ovations. but i think at this point, unlike even 20 years ago, catering to labor unions isn't exactly going to get you the votes you need. In the last election Dick Gephardt was the union man and he received a whopping 0 delegates.
This is serious WTH territory.
zach: I can't recall the populist message ever having a component where the populist attacks the common man or woman. WTH? And exactly who is Edwards catering to when he puts out that message, and who then does he see as being more important?
That is what I mean by populism's race may be over, because while it is still used and appealed to by Democratic candidates, those to whom it is directed are also subject to attacks by those candidates.
If so, in my opinion, there is a new demographic that the candidate is appealing to and it isn't the common man or woman - they are secondary now and will soon will be relegated to an acknowledgment at the beginning of the speech, a nice, "how ya doin'" and then the candidate ignores them for the rest of the speech.
Again, I find it interesting.
Agreed. The way I read the tealeaves at this point is that Hillary Clinton is very likely to receive the Democratic nomination. I'm not convinced that she'll be the next president, though. I think that either Obama or Edwards would be stronger in the general than she.
Hank "Yes, I'm a lawyer" Barnes
So you would rather have an incompetent lawyer for president?
By the way, I don't particularly like Edwards.
My God!
Who would want any kinda lawyer for President?
Are we in another Civil War?
Besides, if we want somebody like a screw-up laywer for President then we'd just elect a no-count, like a Senator.
John Edwards was good at what he did - but what he did damaged our society. He made his money by persecuting innocent people, and North Carolina continues to pay the price for his wealth in the form of fewer obstetricians practicing in the state, and those that remain paying higher malpractice premiums. We're not talking increases of 5-10% - we're talking premiums doubling in two years.
That mansion he sits in - all 23000 square feet of it - was paid for by the suffering of doctors and their families. Yet he has the chutzpah to say he has nothing to apologize for, and asks that those of us in houses 1/10th the size (mine is 1/20th) make sacrifices for the environment.
I try to live my life according to my principles. I'm not always successful, but I do my best. Right Livelihood is a key tenet of Buddhism, and I truly believe that what you do must make the world a better place.
John Edwards's livelihood made the world a worse place. Sure he was good at what he did; I'm sure there are ex-drug dealers who could say the same thing - yet that make what they did right, or the world a better place.
Also, you have to understand the multi-millionaire Plaintiff's attorney mindset.
It's not that EVERY case is frivolous. Of course, many times people are hurt and deserve the big judgments they get.
The problem is when the Plaintiffs' Bar institutionalizes such lawsuits to create a massive wealth-distribution racket.
The SEC fraud crowd sues nearly every company, when their stock drops. Thanks to Bill Lerach.
The tobacco crowd sues Phillip Morris, every time somebody gets cancer (despite 40 years of warnings!) Thanks to Dickie Scruggs.
The asbestos crowd sues every manufacturer who ever used asbestos in their buildings or products over the past 50 years. Thanks to Fred Baron.
This is well-beyond, charming country lawyers a la Attickus Finch.
This is big, big money. These guys are big powerful lawyers. They run large chunks of the Democratic Party. Edwards is one of them.
Hank Barnes
does that mean that the alternative is to never prosecute big tobacco, any medical malpractice, corporate negligence, etc.? is it fred baron's fault that asbestos is dangerous? there has got to be some middleground.
Of course, there's a middle ground! I wrote:
It's not that EVERY case is frivolous. Of course, many times people are hurt and deserve the big judgments they get.
The problem is when the Plaintiffs' Bar institutionalizes such lawsuits to create a massive wealth-distribution racket.
Asbestos IS dangerous, and many of its makers and users DESERVED to be sued.
I have little sympathy for those guys. But, many of those guys have been bankrupted by the suits already. Now, the defendants are Mom and Pop stores, blender makers, Safeway (some guy worked in the warehouse for 2 weeks 42 years ago.) The litigation has EXPANDED into a multi-headed hydra.
I once defended a case brought by a Salesman for asbestos products, (who sadly died of mesothelioma) whose job it was 50 years ago to sell asbestos products to factories and shipyards -- and then he sued these same factories and shipyards for exposing HIM to the asbestos.
Hank B
Hey Lt. Sheisskopf - try to focus on the thread, not on me:)
HankB
Meanwhile a short quote from Catch-22:
"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing’. The women had done nothing wrong but were still chased away. When challenged the M.P.s kept saying ‘Catch-22’.
"They don’t have to show us Catch-22," the old woman answered.
"The law says they don’t have to."
"What law says they don’t have to?"
"Catch-22"’ (page 398).
Obviously, you did read the book, Hank.
The man has clearly spent too much time in front of a mirror.
Well said.
Do ya think it's working?
Don't overlook Stan Chesley in your "estimable" list.
His Anniversary dinner at Wendy's was quite probably one of the most condescending political stunts in my eyes. This is how he attempts to relate to the common man? The common man goes to Wendy's so he can save to take his wife to "Fancy America" when that time comes. Especially on a 30th anniversary.
This man is so uncommon he makes makes my skin crawl. In short, I don't like him.
Heh, if that's the case Al Gore should be a shoe in.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.