Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Editorial: Breast Cancer, and Answering a Critic

I saw yesterday morning that a rather famous newscaster named Robin Roberts has breast cancer. I find this somewhat ironic since we're featuring the series on the cancer industry this week, and because a male acquaintance who's very close to me is currently undergoing a breast cancer scare---for himself.

These days I can't get online as much as I used to, but a comment to the Miklos/Baird series that was left the other day deserves a public answer:

Dean, I worked in the cancer field...Your mind is as closed on this as you accuse the medical research industry of being. You think we are all ghouls motivated by our paychecks alone and that we would gladly suffer the ill to die rather than cure them because otherwise we are out of jobs. Or maybe you don't believe that, but you are still giving Miklos the time of day and front page access to your blog to endorse his views of same.

This is over-the-top. It's certainly not what I believe. I'll give Miklos and Baird the opportunity to respond for themselves. But let me tell you what I think:

Few if any Oncologists (cancer doctors) can be blamed for failures of the research industry. They can only go by what the research establishment tells them. Indeed, going against that research establishment would open them up to lawsuits and other serious professional problems. Nurses and other cancer caretakers are even less to blame. The only people who can be accused of failure are professional cancer researchers, and even their blame is limited. Especially young researchers.

Still: failure is failure, and it's our money and our lives that are on the line.

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Aziz (mail) (www):
I am glad to hear you dont believe that, but it's quote clear from Bialy's book and from Barnes' cmments that they do, unless they want to dissassociate themselves from it as well. I apologize for misreading your position on it.
8.3.2007 8:04am
Scott Kirwin (mail) (www):

Your mind is as closed on this as you accuse the medical research industry of being.

???

Maybe I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, but I don't quite understand the criticism of this article series. If anything this series highlights the complexity of the "disease" called "cancer."

Part of the problem may be semantics. There doesn't seem to be one "cancer." Even the term "breast cancer" is probably a misnomer since there are different subtypes that behave differently depending on which cells they are. But I'm not a specialist so quickly find myself out on a limb on one of those "trees" I mentioned in the last paragraph.

I also don't find you (or Miklos et al) claiming that there's a "cancer conspiracy" where researchers and drug companies are keeping a cure from the public. I think criticism is warranted. W

I've got a brilliant man's ashes nearby who died of esophageal cancer with mets to the bones. The Wife just dodged a bullet after finding a lump where no lump should be. The "C" word still strikes as much terror today as it did when Nixon declared war on it 37 years ago.

Good job, Dean.
8.3.2007 10:54am
Hank Barnes (mail) (www):
This is what poses as criticsm?

Dean, I worked in the cancer field...Your mind is as closed on this as you accuse the medical research industry of being. You think we are all ghouls motivated by our paychecks alone and that we would gladly suffer the ill to die rather than cure them because otherwise we are out of jobs. Or maybe you don't believe that, but you are still giving Miklos the time of day and front page access to your blog to endorse his views of same.

The "critic" doesn't address Miklos and Baird's points about:

1. Limitations on gene mutation theory

2. Limitations on drug efficacy

3. Huge overriding problems with metastases

It's not a critique at all.

JFTR, there is no "cancer conspiracy."

Barnes
8.3.2007 11:48am
Vic Stein (mail):
The problem with guys like you Hank, is not any personal issue, but simply that the people you criticize on these issues are far more convincing, and give what seems to be a far more realistic and balanced picture of things, without leaving out all sorts of critical details and complications that seem to always be missing when you guys tell the story. That's the simple bottom line.
8.3.2007 12:11pm
Hank Barnes (mail) (www):
The problem with guys like you Hank...

I'm not the issue. Drs. Miklos and Baird hare raised the issue of faulty cancer research. You can either address what they are saying or not.

Yes, Miklos and Baird have have persuaded me that they are mostly correct. But so what?

If you disagree with Miklos and Baird, say so. If not, then what's the beef?

Barnes
8.3.2007 12:45pm
Dishman (mail):
I think this conversation would be improved if people would assume that everyone else means well.

On one hand, we've got professionals who've dedicated their lives to a cause. On the other, we've got heretics. Neither is in an easy position.

From personal experience, being a heretic is not easy.
8.3.2007 3:10pm
Tom Hawkson:
I've read that it's easier for a mercenary/cold-hearted doctor to change his mind than it is for a caring doctor. If the mercenary/cold-hearted doctor is wrong, he doesn't care and will just go with whatever works. But if the caring doctor is wrong and people he cared for had died because of it, he cares very much, and changing his mind about what works may involve soul searching and grief. That's hard.

Sympathy should be the order of the day.

Yours,
Wince
8.3.2007 4:15pm
Hank Barnes (mail) (www):
From personal experience, being a heretic is not easy.

Yes, often it's foolish. Not every heretic is speaking truth to power.

But, I wouldn't even classify Dr. Miklos as a heretic. He's a main stream scientist. Look at his publication record -- Science, PNAS -- all the best journals.

Sympathy should be the order of the day.

Absolutely. And humility.

Even the brilliant Steven Hawking can admit being wrong in Physics

If Hawking can admit error, why can't these overly touchy cancer experts and their acolytes do the same?

Barnes
8.3.2007 5:23pm
MaryJ:
These articles have been excellent.
8.3.2007 8:16pm
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Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.

Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.

Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.