Computer questions
Andrew Cory
So, When I press the power button on my current computer, I get a repeating long beep. And nothing else. This doesn't conform to any of the beep codes I know, or can look up. I figure it means that either my memory, motherboard, or CPU have died...
Since my current setup is about 4 years old, I decided to get all new everything. I'm going from: AMD 3200XP with 1gig of DDR 333 RAM To: Intel Core 2 Duo (E6300 2X1.86GHz) with 2 gigs of DDR2 667RAM (with this motherboard)
My questions are: 1) How much more does my new system rock over my old system? That's not bragging, that's a real question.
2) Will my Serial ATA 1.5Gb/s connectors support my old ATA100 hard drive? What about my DVD drives-- the ones that are on the same circuit as my hard drive?
3) I've heard that Intel is significantly cooler than AMD, is this true? Does anyone know if this motherboard has a built in thermal gauge?
Anything else I should be thinking of? Thanks in advance!
Double the memory should make a huge difference, because you won't have to go to virtual memory nearly as soon or as often. I try to tell people: no matter what else you do to save costs, max out the memory. Virtual memory is so slow. Add in the fact that your memory is twice as fast (and assuming that your board will make use of that speed, which I think it will), and you should see memory-intensive processes move like lightning.
New one looks pretty good. 2 gig should do you for a while. Be sure your video card supports DirectX 10 or you'll be slapping yourself.
My rule of thumb for the last 7 years or so has been: get something midline (not over $2000), then double the memory in a year or so. That way your very rapidly depreciating asset doesn't flush money down the hole quite so fast, but you get all the functionality. Memory gets cheaper by as much as half in a year, and you usually don't need it till then anyway.
Processors can chug along until the next OS release, imho. I don't like what I'm hearing about Vista tho, so my next comp might still be XP.
I've all ready bought the hardware, I'm just waiting for it to show up. Perhaps I ought to have waited, but I've been sans home computer for several weeks now...
Martin: Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm curious about the raw CPU power increase, though. My new and current CPUs have about the same clock speeds, but A) I've got 2 of 'em in the new CPU, and B) I expect that modern CPUs can do more with the same clock speed...
That said, SATA >> IDE for a lot of reasons, and HDD are cheap. If you need to migrate data, load the system on the SATA, then copy the data from the IDE drive.
Depending on what you are doing, that is 50%-200% faster. That said, unless you are playing games games or doing vidoe editing, the speed up will probably only be noticable on boot (unless you are runing Vista, then you can probably enable quite a bit more eyecandy).
You will be able to run more apps at the same time, and that is probably the biggest performance boost you will get.
I'm not sure I followed that. Are you saying I need a new hard drive, or that one would simply be nice to have? And if I _do_ need a new hard drive, how can I recover the data on my old drive? Also, what about my DVD drives? Do I need to replace those also?
First off, it will be somewhat better than your previous system at single tasks, but not massively so, the 6300 is nice, but its not tons faster in a single core than the 3200 you have, or even an old P4 3g. It will be much better at supporting multiple processes, which is an important aspect for myself since I am always gaming, watching tv, web browsing, and messing with text files, all with different applications on two monitors on the same computer.
However, it will be MASSIVELY upgradable, the higher end core2duo chips are much faster, and can fit into the board later on with a simple upgrade.
SATA 150 is backwards compatable with SATA 100, but not with IDE ATA drives. You'll need an adapter to plug them into the SATA ports, but you could just use the 2 IDE ATA133 connectors on that motherboard for now (which are IDE ATA100 backwards compatable) until you get new drives that use SATA.
I don't know about the via chipset you're choosing, most people going core2duo go for an intel chipset, like the p965 (I have a gigabyte 965p-ds3, but I don't recommend that for you since it has an issue, not a problem, an issue with the ide controller), or the new higher end nvidia chipset n680i, which is getting lots of rave reviews, but is rather expensive.
I do know all intel chips have their own internal thermal monitors, and motherboards supporting them should have fan speed temperature control build into the bios.
BTW, you might want to skip straight to getting a lga775 board with a pci-express slot for a new video card as well. a motherboard with agp and lga775 is sorta midway between the future and the past. And you can get a LOT of graphic power for just $100 in pci-express form factor these days.
I totally missed seeing that bit about the ATA133 connection. Glad someone's sharp eye spotted it. How much trouble am I going to have plugging my old hard drive into my new mobo/CPU without reformatting it? I've got a lot of data I should like to back up first...
Within the last 5 months, I picked up an AGP X8 video card, so I was looking for a mobo which would support it. I'm really _not_ looking to completely swap out all my components just yet! Soon, though. Very soon...
DDR2 is dual-channel, so adding that to the increase from ddr333 to ddr667 should get you an tremendous increase in RAM speed. Don't recall offhand what kind of hyperthreading the Core chipsets support, although the latest Athlon 64-bit CPUs have a healthy advantage with their on-chip memory controller.
Skipping thru the Web, apparently the 6300 is 1066FSB. It will run at least as effciently as the 333FSB Atlon, despite the lower Mhz rate of the CPU. I've always been a big believer in a faster, wider bus over more cycles, all else being equal.
Offhand I would say the new system is more robust, and certainly allows wider mulitiasking. If you're talking about single-task, brute-force number-crunching, the XP3200 might be better. Say if you're recoding a large video file from .wmv or .mov to .divx. Even then, the double-size and faster memory provides a general advantage for the newer system... The 1066FSB of the 6300 processor, should provide much faster response, especially during heavy multi-tasking. I repeat: bigger bus (faster FSB or greater bandwidth) trumps faster CPU.
The motherboard you cited does have two ATA-133 connectors, so you could drop in your old drive. But if it really is ATA-100, you would be crippling the system. Buy a new drive! Just plug your drive into one of the ATA-133 connectors. BUT, as Kristian said, get a new (faster) drive, install that as your boot drive, then copy over all your important data. You can boot off your old drive, and so on, but it would be like using a VW Beetle engine in a Ferrari. You could do it, but why?
DVD drives normally use standard IDE-ATAPI interface. In other words, they're just another IDE device. They should work just fine.
You will have to use the ATA-133 connectors on the new motherboard to use your old DVD drives. There are a fair number of new DVD/DVD-burner drives which which are SATA instead of ATA-ATAPI, but they are slightly more expensive.
Normal desktop Pentium IV processors are nearly hot enough to act as an apartment space-heater. Much hotter than an equivalent AMD. The Core series, on the other hand (IIRC) derives from the Intel Palomino laptop chipset, and was designed for cooler operation from the start. I expect this is why Apple selected the Core for all of their Mac systems. That's how they can engineer all those lovely, elegant, thin systems.
If you mean by "thermal gauge" some sort of temperature sensor, I believe that's pretty much standard on most new motherboards. If you check out the link you provided ({g}) you'll see the ASRock m/b offers
- CPU Temperature Sensing
- Chassis Temperature Sensing
- CPU Fan Tachometer
- Chassis Fan Tachometer
- CPU Quiet Fan
- Voltage Monitoring: +12V, +5V, +3.3V, Vcore
Over here I'm running an MSI m/b with an AMD XP2800 (2094Gz true speed) at 333Mz FSB, and the bundled utilities includes MSI PC Alert 4, which gives you all sorts of system info. Right now my cpu is running at 50 degrees C, the system temp is 38 degrees C, my vcore is at 1.65v, and the cpu fan is running at 7105 rpm.
Is that what you're after? :)
The best way to protect your cpu is buy a new heatsink and cooler which are explicitly rated for that specific processor. I would NOT recommend using an older heatsink/cooler on the new cpu, even if they fit.
You may want to think about a new case. Ask some of the local gurus about that.
Going over the other comments, I agree with Martin that RAM trumps nearly everything. After that comes the bandwidth. :)
Jeffery Boser's comments seem to confirm my expectations about the 6300. Single tasks will be relatively unaffected, but multitasking strongly improved. Kinda like having eight checkout lanes instead of two. :)
My own preference leans to ATA-133 drives, but they seem to be disappearing. The choices have reduced to SATA or ATA-100. For some reason, they're still around. I expect they're for the "economy" systems. ;-/
Basically you will have to buy an SATA drive as the new drive. ;) It then depends on whether you want blazing fast speed, or high capacity.
First we have the Western Digital Raptor. Compusa currently offers (I'm looking at the listing right now) an internal model with 16Mb cache (wow), SATA-150, 150GB capacity for $219.99. That puppy will freaking scream.
On the other hand, Maxtor (recently purchased by Seagate) now offers a 500Gb SATA-300, 7200rpm, 16Mb cache drive for $159. I've been told the new SATA-300 interface is largely vaporware, and offers little real performance increase over the SATA-150 drives. Still, it would be at least as fast as an SATA-150 drive, and it's three times the capacity.
Either one will run rings around your ATA-100 drive, which is probably 5400rpm anyway.
No, you won't have to reformat your drive. You will have to reinstall your OS. What are you using? XP, I hope. ;) Once the install is done, your old drive should show up as the next fixed drive on the system. Then just copy stuff over.
I agree with Jeffrey that Intel offers the best chipsets for Intel systems. I prefer Asus for AMD systems, with an AMD or Nvidia chipset.
Sorry, but I gotta ask: yes, I know, you already bought the hardware, but unless you are either really cheap, or a performance freak, why not buy a Mac Mini? $600 gets you a Core Duo processor with OS X and a complete new system, save a keyboard and monitor.
...Unless you spent like $200 for everything. :)
Actually it has 2 ide connectors. You can hook the old drives right up just fine, however, I highly recommend seeing if you can boot up ubuntu after doing that, so you can move your data to a safe directory/partition before you reinstall windows. And you will reinstall windows. A new chipset pretty much demands it.
I always keep all my data on my own partition (40g for the operating system and general apps, another 40g one for games like world of warcraft that i don't want to reinstall and update after a operating system wipe/reinstall, and everything else is for my personal partition.. I never, ever, keep my data in the My Documents folder, its all in my own organized folders in that partition, so I can burn dvd's with backups with just the parts I want).
If it is RAM, it's more likely unseated than bad. I'd lean toward that or overheating offhand. I think my experience with those codes turned out to be RAM related.
Anyway, it's just old enough that getting a new one isn't a bad idea.
Moving from an AMD platform to Intel is a 'must reinstall' situation- I second the suggestion of getting an Ubuntu CD- you can boot right off the CD into the Ubuntu GUI and save all your data.
I strongly recommend getting a new drive. Try this:
250GB Western Digital Caviar 7200RMP, 8MB Cache
It's a SATA 3.0GB/s connection and is only $62.99 from Newegg. Install to that, then connect your old drive and use it for cold storage.
Seems to me your biggest issue is recovering your data- once that is done, regardless of how you set up the new system, you should be very pleased with the performance.
In this case, the Knoppix LiveCD is probably better. It was developed for system maintenance/admin an will have more tools on it stock than ubuntu. And the LiveCD portion is better.
I am pretty sure
is not quite right. Most of the encoders are mulithreaded an written to use the lastest/greatest instructions sets if availible. My understanding is that on most encoding the Core2 beat the Athlon like rented goalies.
As far as Linux goes: I've got a pair of DVD drives. Can I simply run the liveDVD from one drive and burn to the other drive? Or do I need to transfer the files to a different computer and then burn/install?
As for not getting a Mac: I've disliked Macs for a _very_ long time. I'll someday get around to having a whole post on that...
My preference (FWIW) is to get the new drive and install windows, do all the updates and so on, then install the old drive (or put it in a USB enclosure) to get the data off it. Then I retire it. 4years is putting the HDD on the overhill side of reliability. I'd copy the info, wipe the drive and just store it for an ermgency backup/transfer tool. Just my $0.02.
I just scanned the comments (should be coding but just had lunch).
Is your setup working?
If not, what are your remaining questions/problems?
Post here or even better, email me.
I just upgraded one of my systems (I have 4 running right now) from an Athlon XP2000 to a C2D setup, so I'm a bit "in the groove" when it comes to the tech right now.
Andrew, try and start the PC normally and you may very well have success. Also, if you want to compare performance, try Tom's Hardware: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html
As others pointed out, that motherboard still supports your IDE drives, and despite the fact that SATA drives are cheap, if money is tight, the difference really is not so great that it will be a show stopper for you. I find that you can never have enough storage space, though.
Still, it's better to perform a clean install since Andrew is going through all this other work.
Kristian is exactly correct. Buy a new drive ($63 + shipping, sherard! {g}), perform a new install on that drive, then plug in the old drive on the ATA-133 port. Copy over all data, and Bob's yer uncle! Ubuntu is not required.
Andrew, if you have a few bucks left over, pick up an external 3 1/2" drive enclosure. They're available for firewire and USB 2.0. Drop in your old drive, and bingo, you have an external backup for vital data which will work on just about any computer. Well the USB 2.0 version will. ...Or maybe wait a while until your expendable funds expand. :)
If you don't mind saying, could you put up a list of just what you got, and how much you spent? I'm thinking of maybe upgrading, but I don't have a lot of free funds myself.
It would also be nice if you posted updates here on Dean's World on how the upgrade goes, and your impressions of the new system. I've been using AMD for quite a while now, but the new Core chips sound pretty good.
And I also second the idea of using an inexpensive SATA drive as the basis of your new operating system install. Don't add your old drive until after you've installed windows, though, just as a safeguard against accidently affecting your data. And when you can, immediately do a backup.
I am not sure you will have to worry about converting your board to support the SATA drive. Most new motherboards have SATA built right in and even have built-in RAID for multiple drives.
I am an AMD fan myself. I like it better for gaming. However people are raving about the Intel Core2Duos. They appear to be the cat's pajamas.
Has anyone tried comparing an X2 AMD chip like the 4200+, 4600+? Those are the real competition for the Core 2 Duos since the 3800+ and such my be 64bit but are not dual cores.
I've talked to several folks who swear by their 10K drives, and read fairly glowing reviews.
Not arguing with you, just surprised. Y'know? :)
A 7200 SATA drive with 16Mb cache ain't nuttin' to sneeze at.
My vote for the old drive (once Andrew has copied the data) is: buy a 3 1/2" external drive housing and drop that puppy in there. Make a great backup drive. I think you can even find some units which draw all their power from the USB port, just like the 2 1/2" external units can... Or get a housing with firewire, if that m/b supports it.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.