Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Little Brother


Via Glenn, an interesting, somewhat frightening proposal to mimic Britain's system of government cameras.

I would argue we could greatly benefit from cameras, but not the kind Britain has. We need individuals with cameras – to watch the police as well as criminals.

Just imagine what will happen when data storage and camera tech is cheap enough that it’s trivial to walk around carrying a continuously updated video recording of the last hour or day you’ve experienced, perhaps even with a copy held remotely for security so it can't be seized by the offendor. With face recognition and biometric technology, non-consensual crime could become much more difficult.

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Tom Hawkson:
Yes! I always sing 'Can I Get a Witness?' And if the record is long enough it also provides you an alibi in case you are accused of a crime.

Yours,
Wince
7.2.2007 7:41pm
Robert West (mail) (www):
If there are going to be government cameras everywhere in public places, then the data produced by those cameras should be accessible to all, not just to the government.
7.2.2007 7:51pm
Elisha Feger (mail) (www):
Ugh.
7.2.2007 7:59pm
John_B (mail) (www):
I don't get torqued over cameras. I do get concerned, though, about what's done with the taped materials.

If they're wiped after 48 hours, unless they become part of a criminal investigation, then I won't complain. I'll take my chances that my behavior will not rise to the level of felony crime.

I most certainly do not want tapes accessible to all. While my behavior may not rise to the criminal level, it has risen to the level of acute embarrassment and might have caused serious trouble in work or at home. There's a difference between surveillance and voyeurism, after all.

I've sworn that if I ever lose and eye, rather than a glass eye replacement, I want a video camera replacement.
7.2.2007 8:23pm
Mark @ Urthshu (mail) (www):
"A camera-network, being necessary to the security of a non-Free Surveillance State, the right of the People to bear cameras is doubtful."

High-tech cameras, anyway. I'm sure they'd come under fire as potential terrorist assets or something.
7.2.2007 9:08pm
Dan the Highway guy (mail) (www):
There is quite the effort by police departments to prevent private citizens from taping the actions of officers in the line of duty. This action by the police is wrong, and should be stopped as vehemently as possible, and as quickly as possible. Police have no privilege of privacy in their on duty actions, in my opinion, and should be subject to the public scrutiny of every single action they take on behalf of 'the public'.

The alternative is pretty scary.
7.3.2007 12:09am
Tom Zusag (mail):
Sounds like a scifi novel I read in the past. If I remember correctly, it is "Earth" by David Brin. It is set in a world where everyone is connected electronically to a world-wide video network. People wear "Tru-Vision" goggles that transmit what they see to the network. Therefore a video recording witnesses virtually every crime, and the person whose goggles uploaded the video got some kind of reward. Sounds like we're kinda close to that now with cell phones, camcorders, and wifi enabled cameras...
7.3.2007 12:37am
Trudy W. Schuett (mail) (www):
We just got a very small, and cheap, video camera for $100. It's an RCA Small Wonder, and easy enough to use, I'm going to try carrying it around with me and make a home video of my daily life to keep for the grandkids.

So I could conceivably record something important happening. But, I'm also noticing one or two places where I'm not allowed to have it. I'm not supposed to take pictures on base, and I was in court the other day, and they don't allow cameras of any kind, or cell phones.
7.3.2007 4:57am
Dean Esmay:
I think I'm on the other side from most others. I think having cameras set up in all public places, and allowing anybody to view what the cameras record, is probably not a bad idea.

I also think it's inevitable; even if the state doesn't do this, it will happen anyway on its own with the ubiquity of personal cameras and services like Google.
7.3.2007 5:38am
Dan the Highway guy (mail) (www):
Dean, I'm not against cameras in public places. What I'm against is cameras set up *only* for the police to use, and prohibitions against private citizens using cameras to tape state agents. And that's what Trudy's restrictions come down to as well (a case could be made that courtroom camera restrictions protect defendants and witnesses, but .

Personally, I fear terrorists less than the state. I know that sounds odd, and like some Michael Moore statement, but I truly feel that we have the ability to recover from any terrorist attack, and that an open society makes any such attack more difficult. Even whatever horrific nuclear attack you want to come up with. Conversely, I think the actions of government to reduce liberty are far more wide-ranging and harmful against the future of the citizens. I think we can do both: Protect the people of the US against terrorists and open society.
7.3.2007 9:22am
Dean Esmay:
Yes, I would think the best policy was that the camera data is free and open for anyone to look at.
7.3.2007 9:52am
Ken Hall (www):
The trouble, as Dan points out, is that people can already be and have already been prosecuted for taping state agents. The public policy question is being decided for us without our input or consent.

Dean is making a "can't stop the signal" ;-) argument, and there's something to that, but I think somewhat more will be required to make the state behave.
7.3.2007 11:59am
TallDave (mail) (www):
Good point Ken. Fortunately people like Glenn Reynolds are leading the charge to put a stop that kind of fascist thuggery.
7.3.2007 12:33pm
Chris Jones (mail) (www):
I am somewhat torn on the issue of cameras. I am the last person to advocate having cameras everywhere, but we may have to as a last resort. We don't have an expectation of privacy anyway in the public domain so it wouldn't change things all that much. But we definitely need extra cameras to watch the Police and Prosecutors.

Chris Jones
www.thehotjoints.com
7.3.2007 4:46pm
John_B (mail) (www):
I volunteer to monitor the cameras set up at the nude beaches. If there are too many for me to personally monitor, I'll accept bids from other interested parties.
7.3.2007 6:31pm

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