I actually like musical theater (it's my inner gay man trying to get out, I suppose), but, I don't like Rodgers &Hammerstein. Seriously. When I look at any Rodgers &Hammerstein musical, I maybe like one or two songs, but don't like the whole package.
I've sat all the way through "The Sound Of Music" and I only like maybe 3 songs. I've sat all the way through "Oklahoma!" and I only like maybe two or three songs. I've sat all the way through "South Pacific" and I only like maybe 2 or 3 songs. I've sat all the way through "The King And I" and I only like maybe 2 or 3 songs.
That's just me. You can love it all and I don't think less of you. It's just me. It's what I like.
Gilbert &Sullivan, though? I love all that shit. I just do.
Also, I am convinced that Meredith Wilson was the most brilliant American songwriter and librettist of the 20th Century. It doesn't matter that the only thing he produced that anyone remembers is "The Music Man." Who cares? The Music Man is perfect from start to finish. Absolutely everything in The Music Man is perfect. Its weakest moment is "Shaboopie," and even that is still fun.
Even classical music snobs like "The Music Man." I know why they love it: it's so beautiful.
And what's wrong with musical theater? If there's any story more compelling than a good production of "Man of La Mancha", I don't know what it is. I'm so disappointed that the film version sucks so badly, because I would happily watch the stage version of that story every month if I had a DVD of it, maybe every week. It's that good.
Now Andrew Lloyd Weber is a no-talent hack, who has single-handedly ruined the musical theater for a generation. But that's a separate matter.
I have to take issue with you on two points:
1. I like the movie version of Man of La Mancha better precisely because it's not so "bel canto" as the stage version. None of the main characters are supposed to be taken very seriously and so I like the imperfections of the film verison.
2. Jesus Christ Superstar is actually pretty good. Most of the others aren't so hot, though.
I really am not a big fan of Rodgers &Hammerstein, and I am even less of a fan of Andrew Lloyd Weber. I liked Jesus Christ Superstar a lot (especially the original cast recording with Murray Head), but didn't love it. Also, about 20% of Evita is good. Otherwise, I wish he'd go away.
I guess I'd say that I really like musical theater, but I'm picky
This is Dean's World: discussions of Thomist philosophy, the Eastern vs. the Western Canon, Islam vs. Christianity vs. Judaism, and the relative merits of various forms of musical theater. Plus Superman and Spiderman.
Ah, but Superstar wasn't Andrew Lloyd Weber. That was by another guy with the same name, same parents, same fingerprints, and same DNA, but without the same Cats-inflated ego. It makes all the difference in the world.
And Hokie, I just couldn't even stay awake through the film version. It's not the singing that lost me; it's the way they took Quixote's imaginings and made them visible. That just lost the magic for me. Part of the magic of Quixote has always been the sly meta aspect of the story within the story, the play within the play. In a good stage production, you can actually see three levels at once: you see the townsfolk in the small villa; and yet if you step back, you see the convicts in the prison; and yet if you're cynic enough to step back again, you see actors on a stage; and yet all of these levels are interwoven into the single story. To me, that was magical. The visualization in the film "flattened" those layers, and lost a big part of what makes the play special.
Well, having spent several years in theatre (I still have an Equity card), I have to say that I also like G&S. Now, I'm NOT a big fan of Musicals, but I did like JC Superstar, though Hair was iffy. I do want to see "The Producers" although the original film was a hoot....
My all-time favorite musical, however, HAS to be the Rocky Horror Picture Show. That's just so good and funny on so many levels.
Maybe it explains my interest in Goth, both the genre and the tribe(s). Probably just a barbarian vampyre at heart... heh.
The straight guys are discussing the pros and cons of musical theater, and the gay guy's dissing it. Come to Dean's World, and leave your stereotypes behind!
Heh. I get to be IN Gilbert &Sullivan productions with a company that actually has a Wealthy Patron. That doesn't make for elaborate sets, or fantastic costuming, but it does one thing that is worth more than all of that combined.
It pays for an orchestra.
There's nothing quite like getting to be in Gilbert &Sullivan performances with a twenty-piece orchestra (including timpani!) conducted by a Real Conductor with an amazing sense of fun. Unless it's getting Happy Birthday sung to you in key backed up by a twenty-piece orchestra on opening night.
And because I just can't shut up, I'm going to mention that Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat feels like what it is: a twenty-minute musical stretched into ninety minutes. I want to present a one-act version of that musical— cut all of the damned encore choruses, get rid of the Pharoah as Elvis jokes (because for some reason that hasn't aged well), and in general, take it down to a tolerable length, because there's some good stuff there, buried under the schmaltz.
And get rid of the framing story, too, because how stupid is it to open your show with a show-stopping number? Really...
Dean, how can you not like Carousel? But then, I'm prejudiced since that was our senior-year musical. Heh.
Agree about Weber and JC Superstar. Only decent thing he ever did.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the legendary Porgy and Bess yet. Heart-rending. I'm lucky enough to own a very old vinyl copy of the 1959 film version. I knew that Cab Calloway replaced Sammy Davis Jr. (Sportin' Life) on the record due to contract problems, but I didn't know that Sidney Poitier's voice was dubbed by Robert McFerrin. You may have heard of his son, Bobby. ;)
Apparently the Gershwins never liked the film; it was too "Hollywood."
One of the more enjoyable bits in the romantic comedy Kate & Leopold is that both Leopold (from 1870) and Kate's brother Charlie (permanently unemployed 2001 actor) are both big fans of the Pirates of Penzance.
I mean, I'm not vehemently anti-chick flick. Some of them have pretty decent stories. But... Kate & Leopold?
The film where they tried to dress up the fantasy in a bit of pseudo-scientific time travel theory -- but then blew it completely? I mean, the guy who invents elevators disappears from the timestream, and the only change is that elevators everywhere disappear overnight? But all the buildings are still tens and even a hundred storeys tall, with elevator shafts, with working elevator doors? And everyone remembers the existence of elevators? But nobody can remember how to replace them?
Kate & Leopold?
The film where the scriptwriters thought it was so clever to have Kate's modern boyfriend be a descendant of Leopold? And they never noticed anything wrong until the test screenings, when the audience feedback was all about how creepy it was that he ended up schtupping his grandmother? And so they had to yank the relationship out, making him just a neighbor, and leaving some gaping holes in the plot?
Kate & Leopold?
I wanted to like this film. I'm a big Meg Ryan fan, because When Harry Met Sally is practically my life story. But... Kate & Leopold?
I would never diss musical theatre!! I just happen to like the more mid-modern stuff (before The Lion King and others). I've seen Les Miserables 5x, Phantom 3x, Miss Saigon 2x, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat more times than I can count, Rent, etc.
I can't believe no one has pointed to Sondheim, who has single-handedly kept the American musical alive by transforming it into opera. Sweeney Todd is nearly perfect and Sunday in the Park with George is more singable than the "Rent"-inspired dreck we've been hearing lately.
Dean, if you have a hankering for G&S, try viewing Topsy Turvy starring Jim Broadbent. A great movie by the sometimes great Mike Leigh. The singular rendition of "The Sun whose rays..." is beautiful and cunning.
I can't let a comment thread on musicals go by without mentioning what I think is the best recent original musical: South Park - Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.
If I'm in the right mood for them, I'll watch just about any musical. I really don't go to the see them in theater tho, I usually watch the movies.
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
Genius!
I actually like musical theater (it's my inner gay man trying to get out, I suppose), but, I don't like Rodgers &Hammerstein. Seriously. When I look at any Rodgers &Hammerstein musical, I maybe like one or two songs, but don't like the whole package.
I've sat all the way through "The Sound Of Music" and I only like maybe 3 songs. I've sat all the way through "Oklahoma!" and I only like maybe two or three songs. I've sat all the way through "South Pacific" and I only like maybe 2 or 3 songs. I've sat all the way through "The King And I" and I only like maybe 2 or 3 songs.
That's just me. You can love it all and I don't think less of you. It's just me. It's what I like.
Gilbert &Sullivan, though? I love all that shit. I just do.
Also, I am convinced that Meredith Wilson was the most brilliant American songwriter and librettist of the 20th Century. It doesn't matter that the only thing he produced that anyone remembers is "The Music Man." Who cares? The Music Man is perfect from start to finish. Absolutely everything in The Music Man is perfect. Its weakest moment is "Shaboopie," and even that is still fun.
Even classical music snobs like "The Music Man." I know why they love it: it's so beautiful.
Now Andrew Lloyd Weber is a no-talent hack, who has single-handedly ruined the musical theater for a generation. But that's a separate matter.
I have to take issue with you on two points:
1. I like the movie version of Man of La Mancha better precisely because it's not so "bel canto" as the stage version. None of the main characters are supposed to be taken very seriously and so I like the imperfections of the film verison.
2. Jesus Christ Superstar is actually pretty good. Most of the others aren't so hot, though.
I guess I'd say that I really like musical theater, but I'm picky
This is Dean's World: discussions of Thomist philosophy, the Eastern vs. the Western Canon, Islam vs. Christianity vs. Judaism, and the relative merits of various forms of musical theater. Plus Superman and Spiderman.
L'chaim!
And Hokie, I just couldn't even stay awake through the film version. It's not the singing that lost me; it's the way they took Quixote's imaginings and made them visible. That just lost the magic for me. Part of the magic of Quixote has always been the sly meta aspect of the story within the story, the play within the play. In a good stage production, you can actually see three levels at once: you see the townsfolk in the small villa; and yet if you step back, you see the convicts in the prison; and yet if you're cynic enough to step back again, you see actors on a stage; and yet all of these levels are interwoven into the single story. To me, that was magical. The visualization in the film "flattened" those layers, and lost a big part of what makes the play special.
Well, having spent several years in theatre (I still have an Equity card), I have to say that I also like G&S. Now, I'm NOT a big fan of Musicals, but I did like JC Superstar, though Hair was iffy. I do want to see "The Producers" although the original film was a hoot....
My all-time favorite musical, however, HAS to be the Rocky Horror Picture Show. That's just so good and funny on so many levels.
Maybe it explains my interest in Goth, both the genre and the tribe(s). Probably just a barbarian vampyre at heart... heh.
Respects,
It pays for an orchestra.
There's nothing quite like getting to be in Gilbert &Sullivan performances with a twenty-piece orchestra (including timpani!) conducted by a Real Conductor with an amazing sense of fun. Unless it's getting Happy Birthday sung to you in key backed up by a twenty-piece orchestra on opening night.
That was fun...
It's such a silly video...
And get rid of the framing story, too, because how stupid is it to open your show with a show-stopping number? Really...
Agree about Weber and JC Superstar. Only decent thing he ever did.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the legendary Porgy and Bess yet. Heart-rending. I'm lucky enough to own a very old vinyl copy of the 1959 film version. I knew that Cab Calloway replaced Sammy Davis Jr. (Sportin' Life) on the record due to contract problems, but I didn't know that Sidney Poitier's voice was dubbed by Robert McFerrin. You may have heard of his son, Bobby. ;)
Apparently the Gershwins never liked the film; it was too "Hollywood."
One of the more enjoyable bits in the romantic comedy Kate & Leopold is that both Leopold (from 1870) and Kate's brother Charlie (permanently unemployed 2001 actor) are both big fans of the Pirates of Penzance.
I mean, I'm not vehemently anti-chick flick. Some of them have pretty decent stories. But... Kate & Leopold?
The film where they tried to dress up the fantasy in a bit of pseudo-scientific time travel theory -- but then blew it completely? I mean, the guy who invents elevators disappears from the timestream, and the only change is that elevators everywhere disappear overnight? But all the buildings are still tens and even a hundred storeys tall, with elevator shafts, with working elevator doors? And everyone remembers the existence of elevators? But nobody can remember how to replace them?
Kate & Leopold?
The film where the scriptwriters thought it was so clever to have Kate's modern boyfriend be a descendant of Leopold? And they never noticed anything wrong until the test screenings, when the audience feedback was all about how creepy it was that he ended up schtupping his grandmother? And so they had to yank the relationship out, making him just a neighbor, and leaving some gaping holes in the plot?
Kate & Leopold?
I wanted to like this film. I'm a big Meg Ryan fan, because When Harry Met Sally is practically my life story. But... Kate & Leopold?
You're not who I thought you were, man...
I can't believe no one has pointed to Sondheim, who has single-handedly kept the American musical alive by transforming it into opera. Sweeney Todd is nearly perfect and Sunday in the Park with George is more singable than the "Rent"-inspired dreck we've been hearing lately.
Dean, if you have a hankering for G&S, try viewing Topsy Turvy starring Jim Broadbent. A great movie by the sometimes great Mike Leigh. The singular rendition of "The Sun whose rays..." is beautiful and cunning.
When You're a Jet
I Feel Pretty
Officer Krumpsky (or whatever) my fave
I Like to Live in America
And Natalie Wood i the movie - man I loved her.
If I'm in the right mood for them, I'll watch just about any musical. I really don't go to the see them in theater tho, I usually watch the movies.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.