I'm kinda surprised at your attitude considering the complaints you used to have with management at the old company we used to work at. But in any case... yes, the show is growing more interesting again. I hope they can keep it up.
There were a couple of things that bugged me about last night's episode.
1.) Adama should have busted Chief Tyrol down to buck private, or at the very least had him scrubbing the hangar deck with a toothbrush for 30 days. Letting him off the hook with no consequences is not going to be good for discipline.
2.) I had a hard time seeing Baltar as Karl Marx. I can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't seem like him to sow hate and discontent just to monkey wrench the fleet. What's in it for him?
I know that I was harsh with management at our previous workplace because, well, they were taking advantage of us. So, perhaps, I should have added that into my comments about what I feel a union should do. They should ensure management doesn't take advantage of the worker. But, that place was a place where a union, or something like it, was and is needed.
But there's also danger with unions and I think the UAW and teachers unions are perfect examples. They're in place to make sure people keep their jobs beyond all common sense and, as I already said, to fleece the system the work for. We don't need the UAW. And I don't think we need the teacher's union by and large. Oh, sure, we can come up with a number of anecdotal reasons why we should but that's not good enough.
But, you know, maybe I'm just bitter or something.
I hated it. The best part of the entire episode was when Adama threatened to execute Calli. I was rooting for it, since Calli has never not gotten on my nerves.
These people, the last surviving remnant of humanity (as far as they know), are not out on a pleasure cruise. It's inconceivable that they would have let the situation with the refinery go on for so long with no relief, given how dependent the fleet is on that one ship (as well as on the recycling plant, the food manufacturing plant, etc etc). Funny how the Cylons haven't honed in on that fact, huh? You'd think they'd be gunning for that refinery (or the other crucial ships) in every conflict.
I liked the resolution to the problem -- rotate everyone through the scut-work jobs -- but I don't know what took them so long to come up with it. The majority of people among the refugees would be unemployed in space, and there's plenty of work to be done, always. There's no way that this problem would've been allowed to fester for so long.
I also thought it was completely hackneyed that the Chief was on board with Adama and Roslin until the kid hurt his arm. It's not like he was going to lose it or anything -- he got poked, so what? I know it's callous, but does one kid getting injured really justify jeopardizing the entire fleet that way?
The class warfare stuff was tiresome also. The fact is, as viewers, we don't have enough information to ascertain whether Baltar's charges have any merit. We have no clue who's from where in the fleet, or in anything else, from that matter. And I find it completely unbelievable that a farm planet -- a whole frakkin' planet, not a town or a city or even a state -- would have no culture or elite of its own. The entire planet is a backwater? Give me a break.
And though James Callis did a fantastic job with the accent, I call bullshit on how hard it is for a kid to retrain his speech. I had to lose my Boston accent very fast when we moved when I was 12. It's not so hard for a kid. It's nearly impossible for an adult, but with the proper training even that is doable. But saying "do you know how hard it is?" sounds believable... until you realize that he couldn't have done it while he was 10, because he was still at home until he was 18. If he spoke in that refined accent for the last 8 years at home, he would've been the resident punching bag. Perhaps he was, and that explains his various psychoses. More likely, the writers just screwed that up.
Letting him off the hook with no consequences is not going to be good for discipline.
Like Helo shooting Athena. Did he ever pay any consequences for that? And I know the scene where Helo confesses having killed the sick Cylons wasn't used in the episode so it may not be canon, but as far as I know he's still got his rank and his job.
And I find it completely unbelievable that a farm planet -- a whole frakkin' planet, not a town or a city or even a state -- would have no culture or elite of its own. The entire planet is a backwater? Give me a break.
Excellent point. Even a town of just a thousand people develops an informal social hierarchy, and every significant-sized community needs its own local professionals. If you're a poor farmer on Arillon you're not going to send your kid to Caprica for medical treatment, and if you have a liability claim against whoever hurt your kid, you're not going to import lawyers and judges from caprica for the lawsuit.
Baltar's class warfare shtick makes me wonder if any of the people living in the dirt on New Caprica got to see his pleasure palace on Colonial One. Hell, do the writers even remember that? The dude WAS the aristocracy! To make this story arc work we have to assume that too many characters, including Tyrol(!) forget how Baltar behaved as president.
Yet I actually liked the main storyline, but the episode would be far more plausible if Tom Zarek were the pamphleteer that started the mess. That was, after all, the entire thrust of Zarek's character in the earlier episodes. What's more, he could have riled up the working classes and use the "failure" of the leadership in the fleet to punish Baltar adequately as a focal point for the worker's rage, putting Roslin and Adama into a very uncomfortable position.
What are the odds that during the original assault a refining ship of all things would be one of the survivor ships?
Or a farming ship?
Or that any of these necessity/survival ships would link up with the Fleet?
It all smells like monkey grease.
Nevertheless, I liked the episode a lot as it addressed some things I've seen coming for a long, long time.
And I thought the Old Man played it just fine. You can't lead men by making robots out of them, and you can't lead men if you have to tell them every little thing to do and how to behave. If you can't let men step out of line every now and then for a cause they feel is just, then you don't have men, you have sheep, and if you can't rack them when necessary and then turn around and treat them like real men for trying to do the right thing then you don't lead, you dictate. Dictators may make good socialists, but they may very poor commanders, especially over the long haul.
Leadership is the ability to convince men you're just a little more right than they are likely to be so that they will follow you out of respect and give you the benefit of the doubt because they know that although you will do whatever is necessary to lead and command, you will also do what is in everyone's best interest because you have their best interest at heart. Sometimes you gotta be father and sometimes you gotta be grandfather but regardless the men can hate your decisions, and sometimes should, but if they hate you personally then you got no chance of stemming a potential mutiny, instead you'll just incite one, and with good reason.
That's why the President shocked me by agreeing to allow the officers to do grunt work. I didn't think she had it in her.
Everyone, Adama and the President included should be policing their own yard at the very least, scrubbing toilets on occasion, and everyone should be learning new skills, not just practicing old ones.
The Chief did a good thing leveling the playing field.
It will make them all more likely to be successful at surviving.
But soon they are gonna exhaust their fuel, food, and other supplies. Then it won't matter. They can't afford a fight they can avoid and they can't keep running forever without refit and reprovision. They are gonna need allies real soon and they are gonna hav'ta resupply. They can't afford to lose personnel, fuel, food, - any necessity. They are simply not producing anything, they are only maintaining. Man cannot survive on maintenance alone, he needs replenishment.
Otherwise it's just a slow bleed to oblivion.
The writers better get to work.
2.26.2007 3:37pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
1.) Adama should have busted Chief Tyrol down to buck private, or at the very least had him scrubbing the hangar deck with a toothbrush for 30 days. Letting him off the hook with no consequences is not going to be good for discipline.
2.) I had a hard time seeing Baltar as Karl Marx. I can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't seem like him to sow hate and discontent just to monkey wrench the fleet. What's in it for him?
Which comments surprise you specifically?
I know that I was harsh with management at our previous workplace because, well, they were taking advantage of us. So, perhaps, I should have added that into my comments about what I feel a union should do. They should ensure management doesn't take advantage of the worker. But, that place was a place where a union, or something like it, was and is needed.
But there's also danger with unions and I think the UAW and teachers unions are perfect examples. They're in place to make sure people keep their jobs beyond all common sense and, as I already said, to fleece the system the work for. We don't need the UAW. And I don't think we need the teacher's union by and large. Oh, sure, we can come up with a number of anecdotal reasons why we should but that's not good enough.
But, you know, maybe I'm just bitter or something.
These people, the last surviving remnant of humanity (as far as they know), are not out on a pleasure cruise. It's inconceivable that they would have let the situation with the refinery go on for so long with no relief, given how dependent the fleet is on that one ship (as well as on the recycling plant, the food manufacturing plant, etc etc). Funny how the Cylons haven't honed in on that fact, huh? You'd think they'd be gunning for that refinery (or the other crucial ships) in every conflict.
I liked the resolution to the problem -- rotate everyone through the scut-work jobs -- but I don't know what took them so long to come up with it. The majority of people among the refugees would be unemployed in space, and there's plenty of work to be done, always. There's no way that this problem would've been allowed to fester for so long.
I also thought it was completely hackneyed that the Chief was on board with Adama and Roslin until the kid hurt his arm. It's not like he was going to lose it or anything -- he got poked, so what? I know it's callous, but does one kid getting injured really justify jeopardizing the entire fleet that way?
The class warfare stuff was tiresome also. The fact is, as viewers, we don't have enough information to ascertain whether Baltar's charges have any merit. We have no clue who's from where in the fleet, or in anything else, from that matter. And I find it completely unbelievable that a farm planet -- a whole frakkin' planet, not a town or a city or even a state -- would have no culture or elite of its own. The entire planet is a backwater? Give me a break.
And though James Callis did a fantastic job with the accent, I call bullshit on how hard it is for a kid to retrain his speech. I had to lose my Boston accent very fast when we moved when I was 12. It's not so hard for a kid. It's nearly impossible for an adult, but with the proper training even that is doable. But saying "do you know how hard it is?" sounds believable... until you realize that he couldn't have done it while he was 10, because he was still at home until he was 18. If he spoke in that refined accent for the last 8 years at home, he would've been the resident punching bag. Perhaps he was, and that explains his various psychoses. More likely, the writers just screwed that up.
Like Helo shooting Athena. Did he ever pay any consequences for that? And I know the scene where Helo confesses having killed the sick Cylons wasn't used in the episode so it may not be canon, but as far as I know he's still got his rank and his job.
Excellent point. Even a town of just a thousand people develops an informal social hierarchy, and every significant-sized community needs its own local professionals. If you're a poor farmer on Arillon you're not going to send your kid to Caprica for medical treatment, and if you have a liability claim against whoever hurt your kid, you're not going to import lawyers and judges from caprica for the lawsuit.
Yet I actually liked the main storyline, but the episode would be far more plausible if Tom Zarek were the pamphleteer that started the mess. That was, after all, the entire thrust of Zarek's character in the earlier episodes. What's more, he could have riled up the working classes and use the "failure" of the leadership in the fleet to punish Baltar adequately as a focal point for the worker's rage, putting Roslin and Adama into a very uncomfortable position.
What are the odds that during the original assault a refining ship of all things would be one of the survivor ships?
Or a farming ship?
Or that any of these necessity/survival ships would link up with the Fleet?
It all smells like monkey grease.
Nevertheless, I liked the episode a lot as it addressed some things I've seen coming for a long, long time.
And I thought the Old Man played it just fine. You can't lead men by making robots out of them, and you can't lead men if you have to tell them every little thing to do and how to behave. If you can't let men step out of line every now and then for a cause they feel is just, then you don't have men, you have sheep, and if you can't rack them when necessary and then turn around and treat them like real men for trying to do the right thing then you don't lead, you dictate. Dictators may make good socialists, but they may very poor commanders, especially over the long haul.
Leadership is the ability to convince men you're just a little more right than they are likely to be so that they will follow you out of respect and give you the benefit of the doubt because they know that although you will do whatever is necessary to lead and command, you will also do what is in everyone's best interest because you have their best interest at heart. Sometimes you gotta be father and sometimes you gotta be grandfather but regardless the men can hate your decisions, and sometimes should, but if they hate you personally then you got no chance of stemming a potential mutiny, instead you'll just incite one, and with good reason.
That's why the President shocked me by agreeing to allow the officers to do grunt work. I didn't think she had it in her.
Everyone, Adama and the President included should be policing their own yard at the very least, scrubbing toilets on occasion, and everyone should be learning new skills, not just practicing old ones.
The Chief did a good thing leveling the playing field.
It will make them all more likely to be successful at surviving.
But soon they are gonna exhaust their fuel, food, and other supplies. Then it won't matter. They can't afford a fight they can avoid and they can't keep running forever without refit and reprovision. They are gonna need allies real soon and they are gonna hav'ta resupply. They can't afford to lose personnel, fuel, food, - any necessity. They are simply not producing anything, they are only maintaining. Man cannot survive on maintenance alone, he needs replenishment.
Otherwise it's just a slow bleed to oblivion.
The writers better get to work.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.