Now just imagine if he was a Republican! You sure as hell wouldn't have heard Jesse Jackson say, "Knowing Joe Biden the way I do, I'm sure he didn't mean it as off-color, but it is certainly highly suggestive."
That's really how they talk and think. Biden's gaffe is just more of the same mindless boomer paternalism. They're so over. The boomers are done. How quickly they're becoming the Archie Bunkers of the modern era. Meathead has become what he hates.
Dean you are right, Joe Biden can make this right again. Because he's a Democrat. That's the same reason he was able to laugh off his disgusting comments about ogling his son's classmates in college and being glad one particular coed was so hot becaues he could be assured his son would remain straight. Only a Democrat can be sexist and homophobic in the same sentence and get away with it. Remember, this is the same Joe Biden who said that shopping at 7-11 required an Indian accent.
Dean, if you can't see that this is just one more instance of the monumental double-standard that the media employs in dealing with racism, sexism and homophobia (meaning that only Conservatives can be racist, sexist or homophobic, Democrats are just misunderstood) then I don't know what to say about it.
Joe Biden is today what he has always been. A man with severe diarhhea of the mouth who gets away with rhetorical murder because the mainstream media protects its own.
That's the same reason he was able to laugh off his disgusting comments about ogling his son's classmates in college and being glad one particular coed was so hot becaues he could be assured his son would remain straight. Only a Democrat can be sexist and homophobic in the same sentence and get away with it.
Doesn't sound to me like he's either sexist or homophobic, but I agree with your point, Sean -- he has a real discretion problem!
What you mean, if someone called Obama a "Halfican America"? Ho ho ho! Oh wait...
At this point, it seems pretty clear that the transcript got it wrong (not even a question of a comma: a full on smacking together of two sentences that were separated by the interviewer talking), and people (mostly fellow Democrats) were smearing Biden based on mostly just the eagerness to smear him.
Rush Limbaugh said it: it's his latest singsong nickname for Obama.
The way it changes things is that it turns this (the reported fast transcript):
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Into this (from the actual audio file):
"Biden: I mean, you got the first, sorta, mainstream African-American.
Horowitz: Yeah.
Biden: Who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Which seems to me to be pretty much exactly the same things every commentator under the sun has said about Obama without any outrage for like, years now.
I suppose you could argue that Obama isn't really the first "mainstream" African American Presidential candidate, but that seems like a real quibble given that even at his best, Jesse Jackson won what? One state, once, ever? And Both Jesse and Sharpton, by the way, are neither clean (in the sense of non-corrupt) nor particularly good looking. It's especially odd to see the right getting in on this one, when they've had nothing but dismissive and nasty things to say about the very few African American candidates we've had (even Alan Keyes), and frankly, often with some good reason.
You know, I lean conservative but I didn't see anything other than poor phrasing in what Biden said. When he said "clean" I was thinking more like "clean-cut" or "no baggage" than "needs to take a bath." It's either a statement of his looks (made somewhat redundant by "and a good-looking guy") or of his character (no affairs or Tawana Brawley in his past).
He should have said something like "All-American," but to me this is like that DC politician who got in serious trouble (and got fired) for saying "niggardly."
"Clean" was pretty clearly a reference to corruption, not taking a bath. Both Jackson and Sharpton have had various corruption scandals and other things that tainted their reputations.
I heard the line on th eradio. Biden clearly said,
"Obama is the first black man to run for President, who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
not the comma after the word President. And its obvious from the context that he meant clean as in clean cut - ie, acceptable and not a rabble rouser like Sharpton.
This is praise, not a smear. Quite unlike the systematic campaign against Obama from the right, including that now definitively false-proven allegation he attended a Islamic madrasah as a child. Really, even if you disdain DailyKos, this was also covered in detail on my own NB blog, and at eteraz.org.
I think it's pretty undeniably clear that he's simply praising Obama as all those things, not saying that he's the first with any of them. The only thing he clearly says Obama is the first at is "mainstream."
My take is identical with that of Aziz. I have my own prejudices and bigotries. But I can say for a fact that mine are not racially contextuated, and I am sure that Joe Biden's are not either.
Sure, Joe runs off at the mouth occasionally. But he tends to be more candid about how he thinks about things and why, and there is something about that attribute as a political modus operandi that appeals to honest man inside me.
I think what Biden was trying to explain is why the political phenomenom of Senator Barack Obama has gotten such a sudden and widespread grip on the body politic of this country. Of course his appearance is clean-cut. He looks as though he stepped right off a pages of a fashion magazine or popped out from the big screen in any suburban metroplex theater. But unlike Biden, he carefully guards his speech and mannerisms.
If Senator Obama suitable to be a president of the United States? If he gets the votes, you're damned right he is. The Constitution of the United States defines the qualifications for that office. The senator in question has those qualifications, and that's all I need.
Would I vote for him? Not if Rudi Giuliani is running against him.
Occasionally?? Come on, Arnold. The only time Joe Biden doesn't pontificate ad nauseum is when he is asleep--and I hear he talks a lot then, too.
Do I think Biden meant something like "all other black candidated have been inarticulate, stupid, dirty, and ugly"? Of course not. However, for all those trying to spin his words to their most favorable interpretation, it is inarguable that a sitting Republican Senator who made such a comment would have been publicly castigated for such a comment, and that Senator's marginalization would have been permanent. This comment would be used against a Republican for the rest of his career, and probably after his death, too.
Dean
We live in Biden country. At 5am this morning the Wife was getting dressed for work when she saw this on the news.
"He's such an idiot," she said. That's from a liberal-leaning native Delawarean.
Everytime Joe opens his mouth, the dice are thrown. Will he say something stupid? Will he sound like a puffed-up blue-blood who lost touch with the people in 1973? Will he say something that embarrasses the state of Delaware?
Given the odds, Biden is lucky Delaware is so small because frankly, the Wife is 100% right (when is she not?)
The man's an idiot.
I actually like Obama... and I think Biden was trying to compliment him and not being racist. With that being said, Biden is an ass and could have said it better. Only the left sees racism everywhere... overlooking their own prejudices. This definately highlights the left's double standard. If this had been a conservative, this would be front page news in every paper, magazine and news broadcast for the next few months if not all the way to the next election.
Vic: Well you didn't say that there was another person who said something between those two sentences.
I would agree that saying a guy is "clean" is a way of saying that he isn't tainted by scandal/corruption. I didn't have a problem with that part of it.
It is interesting to me how your analysis of possible "mainstream african americans" includes only Democrats and completely ignores Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas and others I could name.
I guess the fact that they come from an ideology that only won the last two Presidential elections and three of the last four off-year elections makes them radical right wing nut jobs.
I've read Professor Sowell. One of the greater minds in contemporary western civilization. Black as the ace of spades. I presume he showers every day, but that's hardly any of my business.
Intelligence? Sowell is brighter than four or five Bidens wrapped together in a big blanket.
But that hasn't got much to do with politics. If Joe wins the Demo primaries, he's the Man. And that's that.
And if I win the Lotto, I'll book a trip to space.
Since I don't play the Lotto, the only way I'll win is if the winning ticket blows into my hand on the street. And yet somehow I still suspect I'll see orbit before Senator Biden sees the nomination.
"It is interesting to me how your analysis of possible "mainstream african americans" includes only Democrats and completely ignores Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas and others I could name. "
It's interesting how none of them ever ran for President, which was the topic of the question, isn't it?
What was your point again? Oh right. Liberals are poopy! Ha ha, you slay me!
2.2.2007 7:05pm
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
Baloney.
Next. Faster. Please.
Dean, if you can't see that this is just one more instance of the monumental double-standard that the media employs in dealing with racism, sexism and homophobia (meaning that only Conservatives can be racist, sexist or homophobic, Democrats are just misunderstood) then I don't know what to say about it.
Joe Biden is today what he has always been. A man with severe diarhhea of the mouth who gets away with rhetorical murder because the mainstream media protects its own.
What you mean, if someone called Obama a "Halfican America"? Ho ho ho! Oh wait...
At this point, it seems pretty clear that the transcript got it wrong (not even a question of a comma: a full on smacking together of two sentences that were separated by the interviewer talking), and people (mostly fellow Democrats) were smearing Biden based on mostly just the eagerness to smear him.
I'm also curious to know where "halfican American" came from. I've heard it floating around, not sure about the source.
The way it changes things is that it turns this (the reported fast transcript):
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Into this (from the actual audio file):
"Biden: I mean, you got the first, sorta, mainstream African-American.
Horowitz: Yeah.
Biden: Who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Which seems to me to be pretty much exactly the same things every commentator under the sun has said about Obama without any outrage for like, years now.
I suppose you could argue that Obama isn't really the first "mainstream" African American Presidential candidate, but that seems like a real quibble given that even at his best, Jesse Jackson won what? One state, once, ever? And Both Jesse and Sharpton, by the way, are neither clean (in the sense of non-corrupt) nor particularly good looking. It's especially odd to see the right getting in on this one, when they've had nothing but dismissive and nasty things to say about the very few African American candidates we've had (even Alan Keyes), and frankly, often with some good reason.
He should have said something like "All-American," but to me this is like that DC politician who got in serious trouble (and got fired) for saying "niggardly."
"Obama is the first black man to run for President, who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
not the comma after the word President. And its obvious from the context that he meant clean as in clean cut - ie, acceptable and not a rabble rouser like Sharpton.
This is praise, not a smear. Quite unlike the systematic campaign against Obama from the right, including that now definitively false-proven allegation he attended a Islamic madrasah as a child. Really, even if you disdain DailyKos, this was also covered in detail on my own NB blog, and at eteraz.org.
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=463858485
I think it's pretty undeniably clear that he's simply praising Obama as all those things, not saying that he's the first with any of them. The only thing he clearly says Obama is the first at is "mainstream."
Sure, Joe runs off at the mouth occasionally. But he tends to be more candid about how he thinks about things and why, and there is something about that attribute as a political modus operandi that appeals to honest man inside me.
I think what Biden was trying to explain is why the political phenomenom of Senator Barack Obama has gotten such a sudden and widespread grip on the body politic of this country. Of course his appearance is clean-cut. He looks as though he stepped right off a pages of a fashion magazine or popped out from the big screen in any suburban metroplex theater. But unlike Biden, he carefully guards his speech and mannerisms.
If Senator Obama suitable to be a president of the United States? If he gets the votes, you're damned right he is. The Constitution of the United States defines the qualifications for that office. The senator in question has those qualifications, and that's all I need.
Would I vote for him? Not if Rudi Giuliani is running against him.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Occasionally?? Come on, Arnold. The only time Joe Biden doesn't pontificate ad nauseum is when he is asleep--and I hear he talks a lot then, too.
Do I think Biden meant something like "all other black candidated have been inarticulate, stupid, dirty, and ugly"? Of course not. However, for all those trying to spin his words to their most favorable interpretation, it is inarguable that a sitting Republican Senator who made such a comment would have been publicly castigated for such a comment, and that Senator's marginalization would have been permanent. This comment would be used against a Republican for the rest of his career, and probably after his death, too.
We live in Biden country. At 5am this morning the Wife was getting dressed for work when she saw this on the news.
"He's such an idiot," she said. That's from a liberal-leaning native Delawarean.
Everytime Joe opens his mouth, the dice are thrown. Will he say something stupid? Will he sound like a puffed-up blue-blood who lost touch with the people in 1973? Will he say something that embarrasses the state of Delaware?
Given the odds, Biden is lucky Delaware is so small because frankly, the Wife is 100% right (when is she not?)
The man's an idiot.
--|PW|--
As Scott said: 'Every time he opens his mouth, the dice are thrown.'
I still remember his little plagiarism problem during an earlier run at the presidency....
I would agree that saying a guy is "clean" is a way of saying that he isn't tainted by scandal/corruption. I didn't have a problem with that part of it.
Now I agree though that he's been misquoted.
It is interesting to me how your analysis of possible "mainstream african americans" includes only Democrats and completely ignores Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas and others I could name.
I guess the fact that they come from an ideology that only won the last two Presidential elections and three of the last four off-year elections makes them radical right wing nut jobs.
HE IS AN ASS.
'nuff said.
Intelligence? Sowell is brighter than four or five Bidens wrapped together in a big blanket.
But that hasn't got much to do with politics. If Joe wins the Demo primaries, he's the Man. And that's that.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
And if I win the Lotto, I'll book a trip to space.
Since I don't play the Lotto, the only way I'll win is if the winning ticket blows into my hand on the street. And yet somehow I still suspect I'll see orbit before Senator Biden sees the nomination.
It's interesting how none of them ever ran for President, which was the topic of the question, isn't it?
What was your point again? Oh right. Liberals are poopy! Ha ha, you slay me!
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.