There are thousands of "self injected" people out there. They are known as known needlestick injuries or body fluid exposures to known HIV positives. What's the seroconversion rate? Less than 0.1%.
It would prove that some readers think they're clever and witty and have a trump card, when really they're just repeating the same tired old lines we've heard a hundred times before.
Dean, I think if Mr. More accepts his own proposal to you as a valid experiment, he does not likely care much whether the interpretation of results of experiments for which his own tax dollars are being used to currently fund HIV research at the NIH do indeed pass rigorous scrutiny. There are some scientists who believe, despite being dependent on the public's largesse, that members of the general public have not the intellectual resources to question their work. When pushed too far though, you get the type of response Mr. More proposes above - an elementary school playground type of come back.
I think people also don't understand a fundamental issue here (and I apologize in advance if I've mischaracterized your position, Dean):
Dean Esmay has no preference either way about what the 'true' cause of AIDS is.
It seems that you're most interested in getting a GOOD scientific result, clearing up a lot of the obfuscating fog around the issue that's thrown up by people on all sides. I interpret what you want as to find out what actually causes AIDS so that THAT can be dealt with. To satisfactorily explain the discrepancies, inconsistencies, and come up with something that deals with them and still gets the real mechanism.
Mr. More's "If you like HIV so much, why don't you marry it!" schoolyard-style retort misses this very important fact.
Let me put more words in Dean's mouth: he wouldn't be nearly so energized on this issue if the mainstream community were a little less dogmatic and a little more scientific. He's an admitted root-for-the-underdog sort. Well, when the dominant voices denounce rather than debate, that puts the dissenters in the underdog role.
Face it: Dean likes quirks, eccentrics, radicals, and weirdos. That's why he puts up with us!
Ahlo. That's right McK. You had the idea first. Whatever it was. But you didn't seem to think much of it since you asked what would it prove? Nevermind. Chris Noble had the idea for the Mom is Pos. Campaign first too as I recall.
So you both are closet activists who want to coach?
Now of course, Eccles, you are still redeemable should you consider:
You are a free agent, and free to prove me wrong.
Just find on the internet anything prior to 10.25.2006 5:39pm that even closely resembles that Magic should have his mom tested, especially anything by Lee Evans, the real person, not the posts on DW or Hank's which have been so carefully alluded to as Lee’s personal authentic imprimatur.
Mck, Really who is the idiot? What is the subject of Mr. Evan's post? Is it not obvious to anyone but a Chris Noble or Trrll or McK that it contains the ONLY posssible question Mr. Evans would have for Mr. Johnson?
I thought you were just being humorous in your continued insistence on somoe sort of CREDIT for breathing, but I see I was mistook. How is it you MEVER have anything to say about the substance of anything?
Do you have a single thought about what is actually transpiring with O and M and the bigger and better E who stood for what he believed and what was correct for all these years and is loved in Africa EXACTLY as Ali was by those who know him in Nigeria, Cameroon, Botswana, South Africa, Kenya, Uganda and other countries you have no idea about.
"For reasons having to do with genetic polymorphisms (today called mutations) that influence the response of the vagus nerve to talk TV, and anything associated with it in ways that cause me from minor to major gastric distress, I personally have not visited the famous bulletin board, but I certainly hope that among the 60% positive to "our side" comments, someone or three has seen fit to insert the absolute url for this thread!"
Your words Otis. You talk the talk, and walk the double talk.
Go figure.
No wonder, you cannot come up with a plausible answer to an honest question for Dean's World audience.
Repeat three for Harvey, molecular biologist:
"So if Magic Johnson's mom gets tested, either result negative or positive will do what precisely ?
BTW, there isn't a Mr. Evans's post, only an Otis post.
As usual, I have no idea what you are writing about, and neither does any one else to go from PP.
Your question remains as idiotic on the third repetition as on its first posting and I doubt that even a real idiot like me would bother to tell you again that yes McK, you are very very clever and can place one foot in front of the other while walking...maybe. Even if you can't read.
And as usual you have compoletely neglected to say anything about the substance of Mr. Evan's post...Otis did not put his name to it, he merely presented it...LEE EVANS did.
SO YOU FING GET REAL and tell EVRYBODY WHY YOU NEED TO LEAVE YOUR MORON NOTES AT NAR AND DW AND CANNOT EVEN DROP A DECIBYTE INTO YBYL?
Dan and Martin: More or less correct. With a lot of things my attitude shifts, and some days I'm more sure what I think than others. But I admit that for some time I've been concerned thta they found the wrong bug. But I've also always said I could be wrong.
My much greater concern is the pollution of sound scientific practice, the incestuous nature of how taxpayer-funded science gets funded, the clear financial conflicts of interest that have come to be pervasive in this and other areas of research, and the absolute vilification of scientific dissenters--even clearly brilliant and very well-qualified dissenters.
And yes, the absolute vilification of those who question has only intensified my curiosity and concern. The absolute vilification I've undergone in the past at the hands of idiots like Chris Noble and Richard Bennett and several others helped--I tend to get mighty stubborn once someone starts doing that to me.
But the overarching point to me really does go to the corruption of science, the corruption of the once-respectable peer review process, and the high-handed and obviously highly suspect way that taxpayer money is handled in this area are all huge areas of concern to me.
Not to mention the creeping horror of what it might mean if they really did identify the wrong bug all along.
Eccles: if I understand McKiernan properly, he seems somehow to be suggesting that Lee or Otis and I were in cahoots? Why that would be a bad thing I do not know. But no, we were not. As you correctly identify, I just thought Lee's "question" was obvious, even though he didn't specifically address it that way.
But to answer the more interesting question: Magic's mom being positive or negative would be anecdotal and would prove nothing. But if she is positive then it raises a cavalcade of questions.
Of course the one thing wrong here is the inaccuracy of the tests. But then, if there were an experiment involving hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, now that would be something and would probably tell us a lot.
And again, it would be cheap.
They'll never fund it, and I think we know why: they're afraid of what will result if it's discovered that most HIV+ individuals have moms who are HIV+ too.
What would your reader's experiment prove?
It would prove that some readers think they're clever and witty and have a trump card, when really they're just repeating the same tired old lines we've heard a hundred times before.
Dean Esmay has no preference either way about what the 'true' cause of AIDS is.
It seems that you're most interested in getting a GOOD scientific result, clearing up a lot of the obfuscating fog around the issue that's thrown up by people on all sides. I interpret what you want as to find out what actually causes AIDS so that THAT can be dealt with. To satisfactorily explain the discrepancies, inconsistencies, and come up with something that deals with them and still gets the real mechanism.
Mr. More's "If you like HIV so much, why don't you marry it!" schoolyard-style retort misses this very important fact.
Face it: Dean likes quirks, eccentrics, radicals, and weirdos. That's why he puts up with us!
Speak for yourself, dude.
So yesterday, McK commented on DW post: Lee Evans On HIV Testing:
So if Magic Johnson's mom gets tested, either result negative or positive will do what precisely ?
And today, suddenly Lee Evans, not the person but the post by Otis arrives in the Update section to announce a new question: Has your mom been tested, Magic?
Otis says, “ ...Dean Esmay (the blog, not the person) asked it this morning (in a subtle way) on his popular blog…”
Otis: Thank you for your recognition to McK for his having had the first original idea ...has your mom been tested, Magic.
McKiernan
So you both are closet activists who want to coach?
Thank you for your recognition to McK for his having had the first original idea to connect, as supported by your pal, Otis
Magic Johnson - mom - test.
Now of course, Eccles, you are still redeemable should you consider:
You are a free agent, and free to prove me wrong.
Just find on the internet anything prior to 10.25.2006 5:39pm that even closely resembles that Magic should have his mom tested, especially anything by Lee Evans, the real person, not the posts on DW or Hank's which have been so carefully alluded to as Lee’s personal authentic imprimatur.
Sorry, Eccles, McK never asked, "what would it prove".
McK did ask:
"So if Magic Johnson's mom gets tested, either result negative or positive will do what precisely ?"
I thought you were just being humorous in your continued insistence on somoe sort of CREDIT for breathing, but I see I was mistook. How is it you MEVER have anything to say about the substance of anything?
Do you have a single thought about what is actually transpiring with O and M and the bigger and better E who stood for what he believed and what was correct for all these years and is loved in Africa EXACTLY as Ali was by those who know him in Nigeria, Cameroon, Botswana, South Africa, Kenya, Uganda and other countries you have no idea about.
Nevermind.
I quote your, Pal:
"For reasons having to do with genetic polymorphisms (today called mutations) that influence the response of the vagus nerve to talk TV, and anything associated with it in ways that cause me from minor to major gastric distress, I personally have not visited the famous bulletin board, but I certainly hope that among the 60% positive to "our side" comments, someone or three has seen fit to insert the absolute url for this thread!"
Your words Otis. You talk the talk, and walk the double talk.
Go figure.
No wonder, you cannot come up with a plausible answer to an honest question for Dean's World audience.
Repeat three for Harvey, molecular biologist:
"So if Magic Johnson's mom gets tested, either result negative or positive will do what precisely ?
BTW, there isn't a Mr. Evans's post, only an Otis post.
So get real
As usual, I have no idea what you are writing about, and neither does any one else to go from PP.
Your question remains as idiotic on the third repetition as on its first posting and I doubt that even a real idiot like me would bother to tell you again that yes McK, you are very very clever and can place one foot in front of the other while walking...maybe. Even if you can't read.
And as usual you have compoletely neglected to say anything about the substance of Mr. Evan's post...Otis did not put his name to it, he merely presented it...LEE EVANS did.
SO YOU FING GET REAL and tell EVRYBODY WHY YOU NEED TO LEAVE YOUR MORON NOTES AT NAR AND DW AND CANNOT EVEN DROP A DECIBYTE INTO YBYL?
bye birdie
My much greater concern is the pollution of sound scientific practice, the incestuous nature of how taxpayer-funded science gets funded, the clear financial conflicts of interest that have come to be pervasive in this and other areas of research, and the absolute vilification of scientific dissenters--even clearly brilliant and very well-qualified dissenters.
And yes, the absolute vilification of those who question has only intensified my curiosity and concern. The absolute vilification I've undergone in the past at the hands of idiots like Chris Noble and Richard Bennett and several others helped--I tend to get mighty stubborn once someone starts doing that to me.
But the overarching point to me really does go to the corruption of science, the corruption of the once-respectable peer review process, and the high-handed and obviously highly suspect way that taxpayer money is handled in this area are all huge areas of concern to me.
Not to mention the creeping horror of what it might mean if they really did identify the wrong bug all along.
But to answer the more interesting question: Magic's mom being positive or negative would be anecdotal and would prove nothing. But if she is positive then it raises a cavalcade of questions.
Of course the one thing wrong here is the inaccuracy of the tests. But then, if there were an experiment involving hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, now that would be something and would probably tell us a lot.
And again, it would be cheap.
They'll never fund it, and I think we know why: they're afraid of what will result if it's discovered that most HIV+ individuals have moms who are HIV+ too.