CAIR sends money to Palestine... to rebuild Churches
Aziz P
Beliefnet has the story:
The Florida office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations said Thursday (Sept. 21) that it will deliver $5,000 in seed money to help repair six churches in the Palestinian Territories that were damaged by Muslims who were infuriated by the pope's speech.
"We're still waiting for a detailed report from the Catholic Near East Welfare Association to find out the full cost of the damage," said CAIR-Tampa Executive Director Ahmed Bedier, announcing the campaign with Catholic officials in St. Petersburg, Fla. "But the response has been received well."
The Rev. Robert Gibbons, vicar general for the Diocese of St. Petersburg, is accepting the donation on behalf of Catholic Near East Welfare Association, a New York church agency that offers humanitarian and pastoral support to churches in the Middle East and around the world.
"I'm very impressed that (CAIR) would make this statement to Christians that Muslims don't condone this violence," Gibbons said. [...] Bedier said "these churches were protected under Islam. We were upset to see them attacked."
Bedier said the idea to collect money for the restoration originated from individuals within the Tampa-area Muslim community who were concerned about increased Muslim-Christian friction. CAIR leaders said the campaign would soon go national.
Emphasis added, though otherwise presented without comment.
I do not hide the fact that I am pro-CAIR and that my assessment of the organization is that while there are several fools at the top at the national level, the state-level branches do essential and good work.
Michelle Malkin, Robert Spencer, and many others in the conservative blogsphere unfairly smear the organization as a whole as being "an Islamist front group" based on a few stupid comments from the national leadership but they cannot and never will be able to point to anything concrete that CAIR has ever done to support terror organizations. Daniel Pipes' bogus lawsuit against CAIR was a complete joke and a good example of abusing the legal system.
UPDATE: TAQQIYA!
I've been highly suspicious of CAIR. I remain highly suspicious of CAIR. I think "a few stupid comments" doesn't adequately describe the onerous positions that have come from that organization.
But this incident gives me pause. I'm willing to admit the possibility -- maybe even likelihood -- that they're a diverse organization with a mix of fools, victimologists, terrorist sympathizers, and also well-meaning and good people. Thank you for showing us the latter. I hope their influence is large and growing within the organization.
Jesus wept.
The same applies for CAIR. Now they can say, "But look, we built some churches!" Whoop-dee-frickin'-doo.
i don't like cair =)
i dont think they are taqqiyya-ists, or terrorist supporters, but they are surely idiots.
the other interesting thing is that their obsession with palestine hinders not helps muslims causes in this country.
finally, i just want to know where all their money comes from.
my point is that we need to look at CAIR in a more discrete way. Its not Ahwad's personal playground.
Sorry, Kevin, but you've got the right analogy, only exactly backwards. The ACLU defends Christians in court because the ACLU is not monolithic (though the head office has been trying to make them moreso). Individual branches decide which cases they believe are violations of civil liberties, and then act on their own. So some branches are more zealous in protecting the civil liberties of everyone, Christians included; while other branches pick and choose whose civil liberties are "worthy" of protection.
And that's why ultimately you have the right analogy: Aziz is arguing that CAIR is similarly driven more by its individual branches than by its central office. You just got the analogy backwards.
The same applies for CAIR. Now they can say, "But look, we built some churches!" Whoop-dee-frickin'-doo.
You're an ass, Kevin. $5000 raised from the local muslim community in Tampa is not chump change.
Yours,
Wince
How much support is there in CAIR for anti-blasphemy laws? What purpose is there to go after a car dealership in Ohio for a commerical? In Britian, logos that look like arabic script are banned and representations of pigs are removed because they are "offensive." What is CAIR's position on this? I am asking these questions because I really don't know.
The essence of our liberal society is free expression and free speech, and we should be able to criticize organizations that attempt to suppress it without being labeled "Islamophobic." [And just to be clear my opinion is that any organization that suppresses free speech deserves criticism.]
I've been known to be an ass from time to time.
And, Martin is wrong. A simple look at the ACLU caseload will show that the vast majority of their work goes to pressing forward the secular progressive agenda. I will grant, however, that those cases to defend Christians and such probably were done by branch offices. It's plainly obvious the the unwritten official policy of the ACLU is that Christianity and traditional values are the enemy.
Same for CAIR. It's a token PR effort.
Take a look at how much money from Christian organizations is dumped into Muslim countries and come talk to me.
Christian nations are by and large wealthier than Muslim nations, with only a very small handful of exceptions. The Muslim community in the United States is also incredibly tiny. Measuring number of dollars is not really the point and is actually kind of nasty.
Ooops, more morons.
Why, I bet Brian whackjob infiltrated and confused them.
appears to be? how can you make a statement like that in conscience and then admit two sentences later that you arent really aware of CAIRs activities?
its bogus. CAIR excercizes the same right of free speech that everyone else does.
How much support is there in CAIR for anti-blasphemy laws? What purpose is there to go after a car dealership in Ohio for a commerical?
I have never heard of blasphemy laws being seriously proposed by anyone affiliated by CAIR.
The point of going after teh car dealership? because it was a rude insult. they didnt threaten to sue or anything. they just expressed their displeasure - MY displeasure too - at something just as offensive as stereotypes of black americans or jewish americans are. Why arent muslim americans allowed to be offended by a genuine insult? Its not like we burn or riot stuff.
Why on earth should CAIR have an opinion on what happens in Britain?
Or maybe I'm just a dhimmi fooled by all that al-Taqiyya.
Yours,
Wince
And then there's Wikipedia:
Martin, thanks also. Depressingly, google Jihadwatch for "CAIR fatwa". Theres nothing a moderate muslim can do to satisfy such critics. that attitude is really teh strongest rationale for why CAIR is needed.
I don't have to look. I already know what I'll read: how "innocent" is a "huge loophole" that "they" can interpret to exclude all non-Muslims; and how "it's all taqiyya anyway".
Whether blasphemy laws have been seriously proposed or not, Parvez Ahmed has said in regards to the cartoons, "I think the next steps would be to broaden the scope of anti-hate laws and even contemplate about passing blasphemy laws..."
If this is a quote of one of the "fools" you mentioned, then so be it. But you would have to admit that this may be why CAIR has the reputation that it does. If I were to find this insulting, shouldn't you be more sensitive to what I hold sacred? Or maybe can we all just stop getting offended and insulted and do something more productive.
Just curious if you think that CAIR will go as far as they have in Britian to avoid offense.
Absolutely! That and more. That's why I said from the start:
I think CAIR spokespersons have earned my suspicion, and yours, and Phelps's, and apparently eteraz's. But I'm glad that Aziz has showed me that those people may be the national voice of CAIR, but they're not the only voices.
I would also like to point out that, as Mike "Veeshir" Fisher said in another thread, that Brian Macker is neither troll nor traitor. He's been very patient, and he is making reasoned arguments.
And from another thread (I can't keep up with all these threads):
As far as the general point, I think Dean and I both condemn Communism in general. Not militant extremists who hijacked Communism. Communism. Period. Does that mean Dean and I betrayed the hundreds of millions of Soviets who were our allies in WWII? What about the members of the American Communist Party who joined the Armed Forces and fought in that war? How about the billion Communist Chinese who were our allies during the Cold War?
I know it's not a perfect analogy. Analogies are, by their nature, imperfect. But I think it is useful to compare and contrast. I must admit, I don't see why I'm not being called a traitor for my anti-Communist views. The form of the argument is the same.
Yours,
Wince
No. And I don't cast suspicion on the everyday members of CAIR. But if you had a corporation and several of the founders and members of the board of directors had been convicted of racketeering, I would sure as hell be suspicious that maybe, just mayble, the corporation was a Mafia front. That doesn't mean that I think the clerk at the front door is a wiseguy, but I do want to know what they are really selling.
Instead of them spreading bullshit to explain away the non-stop demonization the islamic Arabs routinely preach all across the Middle East.
Also. If Moslems have a right to spread Islam in non-islamic lands, why don't people of other faiths, or those attached to no religious faiths at all, have the same right to freely preach and proselitize in islamic countries?
What's good for the christian, jewish, hindu, buddhist and other geese ought to be good for the islamic gander as well.
Otherwise, all this sudden spurt of "I love you despite that your brothers want to kill me" works out to be just self-delusional bullshit.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
You are agreeing with the Pope! And me.
Yours,
Wince
Even though they tell me the Papacy never did diddly squat for the Croatians, and even turned their gaze in another direction in the middle ages when the Venetians came into the croatian lands across the Adriatic and kidnapped local Croats whom they used as galley slaves for their trading ships. So much for the roman version of Christianity in action.
I judge folks, governments, cultures, etc, by their deeds and not by their line of shit.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
I think too many of us try to paint "big pictures" based on limited data.
I don't think much of CAIR, but I think a lot of what their mission claims to be. They don't do what they say, though, because they are unable to discriminate between the petty and the important. Every molehill is a mountain to them. They also rarely seem to understand that Muslims can sometimes do bad things and bring consequences upon themselves. Thus, they marginalize what they seek to do. And that's a pity.
Absolutely not, Aziz. I think part of the problem CAIR is experiencing is due to the identity politics that has become so large in American life. Not a problem at all so long as we remember that we are Americans first, other identification (distant) second.
My comment is not meant as a slam of any kind. I grew up in Dearborn, I've known and worked with many Muslims. It isn't an issue with me; my only issue is with those who use a religion/philosophy/political theory/what-ever! to wage war on my nation. There and only ther will you find my criticism.
Is CAIR still advising their members to not speak with the FBI when questioned about terrorism, but to remain silent and get an attorney?
Actually, I might have. I think Taqiyya is a perfectly honorable practice. How do you think all us atheists survived the monotheists all these years?
Despite what Dean says the concept is in the Qur'an if not the word (I wouldn't know if it was I read english translations).
There are many circumstances where it is perfectly reasonable to lie. Like when the robber asks where the jewels are. A similar example being when the founder of a certain religion has his acolyte set up a marshmallow roast on your chest in order to get you to give up the location of your tribes valuables.
I don't like the way some are using the concept of Taqiyya as a broadbrush claim that all Muslims are lying about just about everything. I think that using it in retoric is very similar to the way Communists use the term bourgeoisie, the Religious use Atheist, etc. That is as a form of ad homenim attack.
I found that the Muslims I've met are quite honest. The often have no clue as to what I will find offensive about their religion and share them freely with me. One guy telling me that killing for religion was acceptable being one case in point.
Of course, that doesn't mean you won't catch Muslims lying. All people lie.
BTW, I recall defending Aziz or Eteraz against charges of taqqiya on some comment thread somewhere once but I can't find it.
I bring this up because I'm getting the impression Dean is ribbing me about taqqiya because I claimed that other women was lying about what was in the Quran (on another comment thread). I really don't know her motivation for lying. It certainly wasn't to protect herself against bodily harm so it doesn't count as taqqiya.