Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

an important discussion

at Enchiridion Militis. It's not succinct.

Posted by Aziz P | Permalink | Technorati Trackbacks
Aziz (mail) (www):
from the thread (and you really mustt have read the whole thing to properly appreciatethe context):


In Iraq, thousands upon thousands of Muslim Arabs have died, murdered by the Islamists - the enemies of G-d. Have not the Muslims suffered more than anyone in the war against terrorism? And yet the great majority of Iraqis have kept a tenuous faith with the United States, as have the Afghanis and the Lebanese. It is my heartfelt and, I believe, informed opinion that our strategy of resisting tyranny and oppression and implementing democracy in the Arab world is the correct strategy for the future well-being of our country and the world. However, the destruction of Lebanon would be a disaster for American policy as it would vindicate the propaganda put forth by the Islamists in the Muslim world, the Ihkwan in particular, propaganda which can be summarized simply by saying that the Umma, the community of Muslims, will be sacrificed in the name of individual freedom. The Islamists say that the United States is a liar and that Americans are a people without honor, a people who do not keep their promises. It is difficult and wearying to fight against this. Further disregard for the integrity of Lebanon and the lives of its people will make the task even more difficult since, to Arabs anyway, Lebanon is somehow special. I would elaborate the point further but you are sufficiently aware to connect the dots.



(Joseph Rega)
7.31.2006 3:56pm
Dean Esmay:
I'm certainly glad I'm not the only one horrified at what this is doing to Lebanon, and what it might mean to their future and thus the future of the region.
7.31.2006 5:14pm
mariner:
I'm horrified at what's happening to Lebanon.

That doesn't mean I believe it's Israel's fault, and it doesn't mean it's Israel's responsibility to make everything right. Neither do I believe it's the fault of the United States (except to the extent that we reined in Israel too hard for too long).

It appears to me a lot of commentors see it that way.

Instead I see it as the result of the Druze and Christians using rose-colored glasses. They made the same mistake Israel has repeatedly made, believing that enough good will and enough concessions on their parts would ensure a good outcome. They thought they could make peace with the Islamist monster and it wouldn't eat them up.

They were tragically wrong, and now their noses are being rubbed, and their sons and daughters buried, in the consequences of their mistake.
7.31.2006 6:28pm
Dean Esmay:
I don't think that's a fair thing to lay on the Druze, Christians, OR Sunni in Lebanon, Mariner. The truth is that once the Syrians left the only people who were organized, armed, and ruthless were Hezbollah. Asking them to forcibly disarm Hezbollah would almost be like demanding that the city of New York to disarm and pacify the entire northeastern seaboard.
7.31.2006 9:17pm
willem:
I have a good friend whose family had lived in Lebanon for many hundreds of years. Their family property had been continuiously inhabited by family members for over 200 years. Then one day in the 1980s Hizbullah showed up at their door to tell them they had 10 minutes to leave or everyone inside would be killed. Hizbullah took the home and property for themselves. My friend's family fled with few belongings to America. This is the story of modern Lebanon. The thugs must be hunted down and smashed. There is no other way to bring the peace.
8.1.2006 1:45am
mariner:
I disagree, Dean.

Christians and Druze (and yes, Sunni) disarmed themselves at the end of the civil war. That sounds noble, and it would have been if Hizb'Allah had disarmed as well.

But of course Hizb'Allah didn't disarm, and the Christians and Druze didn't rearm to keep Hizb'Allah from walking all over them.

Hizb'Allah didn't just appear on the scene already too strong to be opposed. It took them years to build up, while other Lebanese either ignored it or knew about it but did nothing.
8.1.2006 2:01pm