Back in the 40's and 50's, we were in the process of finishing up a total war against the Naxi's, had used atomic weapons to annihilate two Japaense cities, and were gearing up to face off against the Soviet Union in the Cold War.
I think including "American Way" in the film wouldn't have hurt in the slightest, except we wouldn't allow ourselves to stand a let bullets ricochet in all directions while defending two people. A stray bullet might have hit a bystander and we'd be as at fault as if we had aimed the gun at them ourselves.
One of the odd myths about Franklin Roosevelt was that he was universally loved. He was not. Quite a few people despised him. Not enough to beat him in an election, but probably a third of the country thought very little of him.
But everybody back then realized that in a war, your job was to be an American first. And that the war wasn't "Roosevelt's War," it was our war.
That sort of thinking seems to be quite alien to some people today. Mind you, it's not alien to me. It's an attitude I grew up with....
They want to live in a country where you can speak your mind, and not get arrested.
They want to live in a country where you can work hard, get ahead, and maybe even get rich; all without kickbacks to the local politicians and soldiers.
They want to live in a country where being the wrong color, wrong sex, wrong religion, or just being at the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't get you dead.
You know: life, liberty, and the pursuit of "all that stuff..."
I strongly suspect that a survey of Hollywood would show a strong majority which sees the "1950s American Way" as "Ozzie and Harriet for Straight White Republicans."
Maybe, finally, the films are starting to catch up to the comics.
I have here in front of me, a "Treasury Edition-sized" crossover between Marvel and DC published in 1976. It was the first of its kind; a crossover between both companies flagship characters, Superman and Spider-Man. It was written by Gerry Conway, famous for the death of Gwen Stacy story, and drawn by Ross Andru, who was drawing Spider-Man at the time.
The story is pretty mediocre actually, but way back in '76 (when I bought it), I read something on the un-numbered page between pages 15 and 16 that caught my attention and I've never forgotten it.
The current discussion forced me to find the book and make sure I read it correctly. And as it turns out, I did.
This un-numbered page begins with "Now a pause for Hero Identification", and they proceed to give you an extremely abbreviated origin of The Man of Steel. An origin that ends with, "...in an everlasting fight against crime, for truth, justice, and the Terran way!"
This discussion is 30 years too late. They made him an international hero a long time ago. Its just been noticed now because of a line uttered in a 250 million dollar film seen by tens of millions of more people than read this somewhat historic crossover back in 1976.
Ironically, the comics themselves have always been ahead of the film versions even though the comics are considered a medium for kids.
I think about the first Spider-Man film. Mary Jane falls from the bridge and Spidey saves her, yet when Gwen Stacy takes the same fall in 1972 (which the MJ fall was modeled after), Spider-Man accidently kills her (by breaking her neck) when he tries to save her. How well do you think that would've gone over with the filmgoers? There probably would've been a few commentaries written about that.
And of course the scene where Mr. Hyde sodomizes the Invisible Man...to death, never made it to the film version of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. There would been no commentaries written about that scene if it had, because no one would've seen the film; it would never have been released.
Not to mention that Alan Quartermain somehow became front and center, upstaging Mina Harker, because Sean Connery insisted that they drop the whole opium addiction bit because he refused to play such a role.
Interesting. I didn't realize they even considered the opium addition. I took it for granted that they just watered the whole thing down to reach the widest audience possible.
Superman doesn't need to say he fights for the American way--he just goes out and does it. If he starts spewing crap that sounds like it was cribbed from Noam Chomsky or Koffi Annan, then I'll see something to worry about, and I will *not* be pleased.
I think it's especially ironic when you consider that 1940s - 1950s America, while being one of the most enlightened societies around at the time, still had segregated lunch counters, etc. -- and homosexuality was still considered a mental disease.
But even so, at the time they understood "the American way" was special in a way many Americans do not now understand.
Well, that movie was adequately punished for its sins (one wonders if Gene Hackman still has nightmares about appearing in it), and--whether it intended to or not--it served as an excellent object lesson as to why fanatical pacifism in any form is deeply stupid. . .as well as an early warning for future superhero movie series that stopping at two or three movies might be a good idea (cough cough Batman and Robin cough cough).
I think it's especially ironic when you consider that 1940s - 1950s America, while being one of the most enlightened societies around at the time, still had segregated lunch counters, etc. -- and homosexuality was still considered a mental disease.
As opposed to today, when its considered a choice.
Well, that finishes up that movie for me - won't bother to see it.
Superman fights for truth, justice and the American Way...period! If he ain't fighting for those things, then he ain't Superman.
7.2.2006 4:53am
Commenting on Dean's World is a privilege, not a right. Dean is your host, you are his guest, and you should behave in that fashion. Dean is not your babysitter, nor is he your punching bag. Please remember this. In general, you are free to disagree with anyone on any subject you wish, but abusive behavior will not be tolerated.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.
I think including "American Way" in the film wouldn't have hurt in the slightest, except we wouldn't allow ourselves to stand a let bullets ricochet in all directions while defending two people. A stray bullet might have hit a bystander and we'd be as at fault as if we had aimed the gun at them ourselves.
But everybody back then realized that in a war, your job was to be an American first. And that the war wasn't "Roosevelt's War," it was our war.
That sort of thinking seems to be quite alien to some people today. Mind you, it's not alien to me. It's an attitude I grew up with....
As for FDR, I've read plenty of accounts of people during that era who spit at the mention of his name. Usually on the nearest FDR supporter.
But when we're at war, we are all Americans first. Or used to be.
Hollywood types are brainless twits. This is news?
Not since Vietnam. Not before really, either: WW II just happened to have support from both sides of the spectrum.
Martin,
All true. But some of us are disturbed by the cinema's subtle slide into cynicism.
They want to live in a country where you can speak your mind, and not get arrested.
They want to live in a country where you can work hard, get ahead, and maybe even get rich; all without kickbacks to the local politicians and soldiers.
They want to live in a country where being the wrong color, wrong sex, wrong religion, or just being at the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't get you dead.
You know: life, liberty, and the pursuit of "all that stuff..."
I strongly suspect that a survey of Hollywood would show a strong majority which sees the "1950s American Way" as "Ozzie and Harriet for Straight White Republicans."
I have here in front of me, a "Treasury Edition-sized" crossover between Marvel and DC published in 1976. It was the first of its kind; a crossover between both companies flagship characters, Superman and Spider-Man. It was written by Gerry Conway, famous for the death of Gwen Stacy story, and drawn by Ross Andru, who was drawing Spider-Man at the time.
The story is pretty mediocre actually, but way back in '76 (when I bought it), I read something on the un-numbered page between pages 15 and 16 that caught my attention and I've never forgotten it.
The current discussion forced me to find the book and make sure I read it correctly. And as it turns out, I did.
This un-numbered page begins with "Now a pause for Hero Identification", and they proceed to give you an extremely abbreviated origin of The Man of Steel. An origin that ends with, "...in an everlasting fight against crime, for truth, justice, and the Terran way!"
This discussion is 30 years too late. They made him an international hero a long time ago. Its just been noticed now because of a line uttered in a 250 million dollar film seen by tens of millions of more people than read this somewhat historic crossover back in 1976.
Ironically, the comics themselves have always been ahead of the film versions even though the comics are considered a medium for kids.
I think about the first Spider-Man film. Mary Jane falls from the bridge and Spidey saves her, yet when Gwen Stacy takes the same fall in 1972 (which the MJ fall was modeled after), Spider-Man accidently kills her (by breaking her neck) when he tries to save her. How well do you think that would've gone over with the filmgoers? There probably would've been a few commentaries written about that.
And of course the scene where Mr. Hyde sodomizes the Invisible Man...to death, never made it to the film version of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. There would been no commentaries written about that scene if it had, because no one would've seen the film; it would never have been released.
You mean like (ugh) Superman IV: The Quest for Appeasement?
But even so, at the time they understood "the American way" was special in a way many Americans do not now understand.
As opposed to today, when its considered a choice.
Superman fights for truth, justice and the American Way...period! If he ain't fighting for those things, then he ain't Superman.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.